tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post229954923493306472..comments2023-04-15T01:34:35.989-07:00Comments on BGBC Survivors: Additional Former Church Member Has Been Sued!Julie Annehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comBlogger139125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-44729940311925906772012-07-09T08:01:11.513-07:002012-07-09T08:01:11.513-07:00terriergal - the responses that I've seen (I&#...terriergal - the responses that I've seen (I've been cc:ed) in a few have a one or two-sentence response with the entire "press release" copied and pasted to the bottom. Not much there. Same ol' stuff.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-48648388045154948572012-07-09T07:56:23.805-07:002012-07-09T07:56:23.805-07:00"A number of pastors have privately e-mailed ..."A number of pastors have privately e-mailed me and told me they have sent Chuck e-mails encouraging him to withdraw the lawsuit. It appears he continues to disagree with their wise scriptural counsel, in lieu of protecting image/reputation. This is a principle that is completely against scripture. God is not so concerned about personal reputation and image, but the heart."<br /><br />I wish that those pastors would post something publicly, like the email they sent and any response they got.terriergalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801794520433439408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-2569226529031190862012-06-06T10:34:07.519-07:002012-06-06T10:34:07.519-07:00Crazy! How do they biblically justify that?Crazy! How do they biblically justify that?Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-78847973153301620912012-06-06T10:30:22.639-07:002012-06-06T10:30:22.639-07:00Reformed churches routinely bring church disciplin...Reformed churches routinely bring church discipline on former members, and in some cases, people who have never been members.Paul Dohsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573799769880019424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-39344622057578301822012-06-04T21:36:34.684-07:002012-06-04T21:36:34.684-07:00Why do you want to pray about vindication ? Isn...Why do you want to pray about vindication ? Isn't that the same as you are giving someone an ill wish? Should you pray for his salvation instead ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-51806933736219790182012-06-03T05:23:01.608-07:002012-06-03T05:23:01.608-07:00Feel so sorry for your ex-pastor.I pray that God w...Feel so sorry for your ex-pastor.I pray that God will vindicate him. CarlosAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-53955205352500360642012-06-01T18:15:01.488-07:002012-06-01T18:15:01.488-07:00i'm on the fly here. .
the question isn't...i'm on the fly here. .<br /><br />the question isn't <i>is</i> he a christian, but can he be redeemed? does not love believe all things?David Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-36164995381278302922012-06-01T08:50:21.763-07:002012-06-01T08:50:21.763-07:00You can be sure WOLVES like Perry Noble, Steven Fu...You can be sure WOLVES like Perry Noble, Steven Furtick, Benny Hinn (who has tried and failed to sue people for exposing him in particular) are going to be on the edge of their seats waiting to see if they have legal precedent set to go after all their critics.<br /><br />Have you read the story about what happened to James Duncan, who wasn't even a member at New Spring, when he blogged about Perry Noble? Check out his story at Pajama Pages blog. Unreal. Perry apparently wasn't in on the whole goings-on and did have the sense to fire the guy, but he basically said the blogger deserved it, no apology was made for the behavior of the hirelings under his supervision.<br /><br />It reminds me of this whole new news story about Brett Kimberlin stuff that is going on, about dangerously harassing political bloggers, fake 911 SWATting calls etc. (look it up folks, and if you dare mention his name, don't be surprised if he sues you too.)terriergalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801794520433439408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-77774966773488009902012-06-01T08:10:13.349-07:002012-06-01T08:10:13.349-07:00I'm still laughing - Pew Sitters Legal Defense...I'm still laughing - Pew Sitters Legal Defense Fund - lolJulie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-62345208146547578462012-06-01T08:08:53.912-07:002012-06-01T08:08:53.912-07:00I guess it wouldn't be Hooters if the young la...I guess it wouldn't be Hooters if the young ladies wore the homeschool uniform: denim jumpers, would it?Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-44724849383005293882012-06-01T08:08:22.897-07:002012-06-01T08:08:22.897-07:00I live a few miles from one of the original SGM ch...I live a few miles from one of the original SGM churches and it is as bad as presented on the site, maybe even worse. When I heard about your lawsuit, First Baptist of Jacksonville and another equally disturbing local situation it made me want to cry. Our church leaders are out of control with egos ruling the day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-51731045665242151402012-06-01T07:55:03.409-07:002012-06-01T07:55:03.409-07:00Yeah I vote for Hooters but only if the rename the...Yeah I vote for Hooters but only if the rename their hot wings Beaverton delight and their Super wiener (all beef dog n a fresh baked roll, it's fantastic)the O'Nealer. Their grand opening should feature a $500,000 lottery style sweepstakes with the benefits going the newly formed Pew Sitters Legal defense Fund. A 501c3 dedicated to protecting the 1St amendment and church goers that are being attacked by rabid dog-like "pastors".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-82109309931724263662012-05-31T18:04:10.840-07:002012-05-31T18:04:10.840-07:00Julie Anne, When David said that he believed tha...Julie Anne, When David said that he believed that Chuck was a brother in the Lord, I believe that's what he meant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-88823728382298043502012-05-31T17:41:07.633-07:002012-05-31T17:41:07.633-07:00I'll try the last sentence again: David said ...I'll try the last sentence again: David said he wouldn't submit to my former pastor (because he's a pastor), but does that mean my former pastor isn't a Christian? (meaning - could David be thinking this?)<br /><br />But anyway, I do agree with you about people exposing their true character eventually. I have seen the rotten fruit.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-44870827596993797722012-05-31T17:27:52.401-07:002012-05-31T17:27:52.401-07:00Julie Anne, Yes, I believe David is contradicting ...Julie Anne, Yes, I believe David is contradicting himself. You can't say that you believe that someone is a brother then say that 2 Tim 3 applies to chucks character. This scripture is talking about non-believers. <br /><br />Second, I believe that we as humans sin everyday, that's a givin. I believe it is what the intention is of a individual. The intentions of an individual will eventually show itself. Whether he wants to please God or whether he is being a pretender. Judas was a pretender and the disciples had know idea until he was finally exposed.People eventually end up exposing themselves.Some are more obvious from the get go. Anybody can profess christ but were is the evidence.<br /><br />Lastly, I'm not sure who you are talking about in your last sentence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-92005039433072784802012-05-31T16:39:10.421-07:002012-05-31T16:39:10.421-07:00Anonymous: That's right, I do remember David ...Anonymous: That's right, I do remember David saying that. I may be getting into an area over my head - but is it contradictory? Can a pastor be in gross sin, yet still be a Christian? David said he wouldn't submit to him, but does that mean he's not a Christian?Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-63576655935121824142012-05-31T16:31:22.893-07:002012-05-31T16:31:22.893-07:00David - Good point about recording possibly being ...David - Good point about recording possibly being criminal activity. Being recorded sure felt like a violation - especially when he refused to stop the recording when my husband asked. Additionally, he said he would send us a copy of it, but of course that never happened. Also, I have heard of people listening to it who were not privy to the conversation. Folks, that is CREEPY, CREEPY, CREEPY!<br /><br />David - So, to be sure I understand, I take it you wouldn't submit to my former pastor? ;)Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-34144294250408344042012-05-31T16:23:23.903-07:002012-05-31T16:23:23.903-07:00Julie Anne, David also said that he believes tha...Julie Anne, David also said that he believes that Chuck is a brother in the lord. So there is a contradiction there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-27090025199963322452012-05-31T16:16:45.069-07:002012-05-31T16:16:45.069-07:00Julie Anne, if what your saying is the case concer...Julie Anne, if what your saying is the case concerning Chuck's actions then in my estimation you had an absolute obligation to warn others about the man and his church. <br /><br />Also, to answer Carol's question below asking if Chuck ever broke the law. I believe his use of recording devices in private conversations without permission counts as criminal, at least here in the state of Pennsylvania that would be the case.David Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-34249964791883383392012-05-31T15:59:40.271-07:002012-05-31T15:59:40.271-07:00Ed, you ask: "Would I submit to Pastor Chuck?...Ed, you ask: "Would I submit to Pastor Chuck?" <br /><br />My answer is a resounding "HELL NO!" <br /><br />Why? I think you broke it down nicely for us. First, he's not my pastor or elder and I don't believe he's even qualified to be anyone's pastor or elder. Someone stated elsewhere that we have a responsibility to discern the character of those we support. I would never subject myself to a spiritually abusive environment, and neither should anyone else. <br /><br />It comes down to this, if your pastor assumes any sort of authority that strays beyond the bounds of Scripture he is disqualified from being listened to. <br /><br />Also see my word studies above concerning the words RULE and OBEY and SUBMIT.David Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-54734356423428703292012-05-31T15:58:30.019-07:002012-05-31T15:58:30.019-07:00Anon 12:33 - Did you read David's response to ...Anon 12:33 - Did you read David's response to you? He definitely gave a great answer:<br /><br />@ Anon1036,<br /><br />you don't have to be a language scholar to read our very good English translations that demonstrate clearly that Chuck is not acting in a "godly" manner. As suggested, 2 Tim 3 is proof enough against the man.<br /><br />David was brief and concise. In Julie Anne lingo, I interpret David's response to mean that<br />he believes Chuck is not exemplifying godly character based on 2 Timothy 3: "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth."<br /><br />Here is my response to your question: the actions I have seen, the preaching I have heard, works with little grace, the meddling an invasion in people's personal lives long after they leave the church, the use of recording devices without permission to record private conversations, the refusal to communicate with people who are trying to understand why they are on some strange form of church discipline, the way he has encouraged families to shun their own family members, the refusal to meet with a neutral pastor for mediation, the potentially defamatory statements he has made publicly regarding some of us, the lawsuit which was discouraged by well-respected wise pastors, etc, I am no biblical scholar, but in my limited interpretation of scripture, I do not believe this man represents Christ whatsoever. I would say he is a False Teacher and does not belong behind the pulpit. This is all my opinion based on my knowledge of Scripture, of being a Christian for over 30 years, and of my personal dealings with Chuck. No, he is not godly, but he puts on an air of godliness that can be very confusing until you dig deeper. I hope this clears it up for you. You must look at the fruit of a pastor and the fruit in the lives of his flock.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-76626752660644542282012-05-31T15:19:39.108-07:002012-05-31T15:19:39.108-07:00David,
You asked me: "In terms of “obedienc...David,<br /><br />You asked me: "In terms of “obedience” let me ask you Ed, how do you read Hebrews 13:17 that instruct us to “Obey [our] leaders and submit to them.”"<br /><br />My response is a question to you: Would you submit to Chuck Oneal?<br /><br />Properly, before obeying/submitting to a leader, the leader needs to be a leader with accountability. As far as I am concerned, there are and must be prerequisites to being a leader, including standards and accountability as mentioned in the Bible. Would you submit yourself to Hitler just because he was your leader, overseeing you? I don't think that you would. If the leader is not exhibiting the qualities that allows a person to respect that leader, then NO, I would not submit. Discipline should NOT be a part of any church whatsoever. Discipleship should be the ONLY thing to do. The proper way to approach a sinner backsliding is not in discipline, which the Catholics call penance, but in grace and mercy. If the person has an UNREPENTANT heart, then you kick them out based on 1 Corinthians Chapter 5. But it must be of a sinful nature. Questioning the pastor, or anyone in leadership is NOT A SIN. Sin is defined biblically as "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). <br /><br />In review, no, I would not submit or be OBEDIENT to just any willy nilly just because he has a title of RULE over me. Based on the law of Moses, I have a conscience of good and evil (as opposed to right and wrong). The law of Moses convicts me in sin. Chuck Oneal seems to be falsely accusing people of being in sin, i.e. rebellion. That, in the military, is known as the UCMJ Article 134, which is a catch-all charge, meaning, that if you can't find it in the law, you can charge an article 134. It isn't like that in the Law of Moses, however.chapmaned24https://www.blogger.com/profile/04000004953519445234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-10988402583483955012012-05-31T14:24:25.257-07:002012-05-31T14:24:25.257-07:00David, you assume I'm a troll. Good way of di...David, you assume I'm a troll. Good way of diverting yourself of having to not answer the questions with a real answer. Typical....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-53863572669811698132012-05-31T12:53:38.379-07:002012-05-31T12:53:38.379-07:00PS to Anonymous - I so appreciate your willingness...PS to Anonymous - I so appreciate your willingness to ask again, in that pain. That means so much to me. I don't like to see people in pain and I absolutely want this blog to be a place where you can get answers. Thank you for speaking a little louder so we didn't miss your post. I hope others will chime in as well - ones who have more Biblical expertise than me. Come on, people, let's give Anonymous important information to read so he/she can settle in his/her mind! This is so important.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-91650075845217718222012-05-31T12:33:47.558-07:002012-05-31T12:33:47.558-07:00Just so you know, I have asked this out of a place...Just so you know, I have asked this out of a place of pain and confusion. <br />"Please help, Hebrew/Greek language scholars: Chuck's supporters keep describing him as "Godly". In your opinions, what does "Godly" mean from a Biblical perspective? Do Chuck's actions as described in this blog and by reviewers who have first hand experience with him fit the meaning of "Godly"? Because if Chuck O'Neal is biblically Godly then I really don't think I understand who God is."<br /><br />If all I can expect here is snippy replies, then you can continue on with your intellectualizing, and scholarship and forget about this being a place to heal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com