tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post6432734090935639822..comments2023-04-15T01:34:35.989-07:00Comments on BGBC Survivors: The Big Elephant: Contend for the Faith or Not!Julie Annehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-18050959273996960462012-07-01T08:12:17.330-07:002012-07-01T08:12:17.330-07:00thanks, Craig Vick, for the link. the comments the...thanks, Craig Vick, for the link. the comments there were especially helpful for me to readmonaxhttp://www.spiritualauthority.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-87296526198883254442012-06-30T14:17:09.030-07:002012-06-30T14:17:09.030-07:00Julie Anne -
A facade of love is spot on. I wrot...Julie Anne - <br /><br />A facade of love is spot on. I wrote a post about that a few years ago called "Abusive Love".....<br /><br />http://truth-makes-freedom.blogspot.com/2008/09/abusive-love.htmlJeannette Alteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06574051760314762024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-65370821411065766292012-06-30T09:40:27.710-07:002012-06-30T09:40:27.710-07:00Amen! Jackie C.Amen! Jackie C.monaxhttp://www.spiritualauthority.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-87327584508863357062012-06-30T09:25:58.890-07:002012-06-30T09:25:58.890-07:00Hallelujah, Uncle D!
let me echo some of your all...<b><i>Hallelujah</i>, Uncle D!</b><br /><br />let me echo some of your allusions registering with me:<br /><br />“There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:1-2).<br /><br />“We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death” (1 John 3:14). <br /><br />“And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing” (1 Cor 13:2).<br /><br />“not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock” (1 Pet 5:3).<br /><br />“I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God” (1 Cor 4:4-5).<br /><br />“persecuted, but not forsaken” (2 Cor 4:9), <br /><br />and as the LORD said to his servant Joshua: “I will not leave you or forsake you” (Josh 1:5), he says to us: “I will never leave you nor forsake you” (Heb 13:5).<br /><br />Jesus: “And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. Amen” (Matt 28:20).monaxhttp://www.spiritualauthority.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-88934921493387907652012-06-30T00:25:14.684-07:002012-06-30T00:25:14.684-07:00I agree, I believe that he’s a bully. Even though ...I agree, I believe that he’s a bully. Even though I’ve never met him, his words in black and white have spoken.) Yet, it's hard for me to believe that Fred is so naive in his thinking, buy it's harder for me to believe that he is writing such for enjoyment and he gets a kick out of belittling others. You see, it is possible to state a position, or make a point without demeaning those Christ died for. I don't get it, Fred, which is it? Are you having fun at others expense? Having a good time while people are feeling your sting? Or do you not understand, really understand the pain people have experienced at the hands and mouths of those they have trusted to be their spiritual leaders? You may not realize it, but please take time to ask God to help you understand and comprehend the way you come across to others. The world does not need any more bullies, no… what it needs are those who will embrace those who are wounded, fallen and in need of grace and forgives. We also need believers who can agree to disagree and do it with grace, teachers who lead by example and whose lives speak God’s truths.<br /><br /> Tonight I wonder if the “woman at the well” would have been invited to Fred’s church or even Chuck’s church for that matters. I wonder how they would react if she showed up sitting in the second pew with all around knowing her past and sin. I also wonder if Fred or Chuck (as leaders) understand the power they hold to either do good in the lives of others or to do harm. Either way, they will one day stand before God and be accountable for every word they have said. ME TOO!Forgiven Saintnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-65190673577126826832012-06-29T23:30:36.651-07:002012-06-29T23:30:36.651-07:00Julie Anne, as one who is already disillusioned wi...Julie Anne, as one who is already disillusioned with the church, reading the story of you being sued by your once pastor just made me shake my head. How does Chuck think this action is going to demonstrate to non believers and even folks like me that he believes we can trust God to take care of us, defend us, and provide for and meet our needs? What does he think he is communicating to the words and those on the “worldwide web”? God says that He will contend with those who… He says that “vengeance is mine…” He says that we can trust Him with our reputations… Wowie, guess this is a pastor who might know what the Word says but doesn’t believe God will do, or can do what He says… or he figures that he’s got to help Him out. So sad…<br /><br />And by the way, you girl are in my prayers! Believe that God will defend you, provide for your every need and you can trust Him with your reputation! And smile while you wait, singing praises of God’s faithfulness!<br /><br />And then smile again knowing you’ve even made some new friends and encouraged several thousand along the way!Forgiven Saintnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-11275871111993858032012-06-29T20:10:33.169-07:002012-06-29T20:10:33.169-07:00Arce and Buff, thank you for your responses to Fre...Arce and Buff, thank you for your responses to Fred. His very assumption that to be a Christian you must interpret the Bible as he does is offensive and builds a wall where none need exist.Jackie C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-69141883109042233592012-06-29T19:57:11.672-07:002012-06-29T19:57:11.672-07:00I read some of Fred Butler's blog entries afte...I read some of Fred Butler's blog entries after encountering him here. I was first led to the one referring directly to you, Julie Anne, and then checked out a few others. I do not understand his theology or worldview at all, but that is not the important part other than to say that I hope few hurting people visit his site. But here's the blessing in all this and in his condemnation of survivor blogs: <br /><br />He has a link to this blog in his blog when he speaks of you specifically. If even a few people are drawn here out of curiosity and learn another viewpoint, it will be a wonderful blessing. Even if they don't originally agree with people telling their stories, they may remember them and when they encounter spiritual abuse either personally or through a friend, they will be more educated than if they had read his blog alone. And if they are someone who has suffered abuse, they may finally discover they are not alone. <br /><br />I imagine with people like Fred it feels as if you are banging your head against the wall, and you may be. However, remember Romans 8:28. Julie Anne, it is obvious you love God and have been called according to his purpose - God will bring good out of even something as simple as a conversation with Fred.Jackie C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-87435025076199025242012-06-29T17:56:40.079-07:002012-06-29T17:56:40.079-07:00Continuation...
Julie on the other hand seems to ...Continuation...<br /><br />Julie on the other hand seems to be following the next couple of versus of Jude which go as follows, ESV 20-23<br /><br />"But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. And have mercy on those who doubt, save other by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."<br /><br />Perhaps there was a time when this blog was about some sort of vengeance or warning people away from Chuck's Perfect Church. But I have seen this blog evolve into a safe haven where people who have been burned by false teachers, can find the answers to know that what they experienced was in fact wrong. Christ does not come down in judgement like Chuck does. Christ does not condemn like Chuck does. Christ does not shun people from his presence like Chuck does. Christ does not hate people like Chuck does. Christ is not like Chuck at all, and hallelujah for that! Those people who gave up on church, and gave up on pursuing their walk with Christ can know that the example they were given was WRONG! And that is the purpose of this blog, to show people that this kind of spiritual abuse is in fact spiritual abuse and that those who have suffered at the hands of that spiritual abuse are free in the mercy and grace of Christ to pursue that relationship with Christ separate from the false teachings of a prideful pastor who does not love them.<br /><br />Fred, I appreciate where you are coming from. But put simply, brother to brother, you are wrong.Uncle Dhttp://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-86832196055245389242012-06-29T17:56:10.671-07:002012-06-29T17:56:10.671-07:00"These are grumblers, complainers, walking ac..."These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. (Jude 16-19)"<br /><br />That's funny, I could actually use this same verse to describe Chuck...<br /><br />1. Grumbler, Complainer, Walking according to own lust. I have had limited experience with Chuck but from what I have seen he consistently preaches about sin. And not just sin in general but sin specific to members of his congregation, something that I feel should be really kept private. He complains about peoples behaviors all the time. There is no Gospel message in his preaching, there is only grumbling and complaining. The fact that he pursues matters like indecent dressing and sexual promiscuity so heavily makes me wonder if the third statement is being fulfilled by him in private...<br /><br />2. "They mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage." - I have not known chuck to be a flatterer, but I have known him to bloat scripture into meanings that simply do not exist on a contextual basis.<br /><br />3. "mockers... who would walk according to their own lust... these are sensual persons who cause divisions, not having the Spirit." Again, my limited experience with Chuck is that his "message" has nothing to do with the salvation Gospel whatsoever. He is so fixated on sin and people who sin, that it's like Christ did nothing on the Christ. Chuck is going to fix every member of his congregation, and if they don't meet his standards of Christian perfection, then they go under "church discipline". He is not following the great commission shared by Christ to go forth and share the Gospel, making disciples of all the nation. Chuck's only interest is to grind people down until they are nothing, so that he can satisfy his own pride about being a superior Christian. Lust does not pertain specifically to sexual contexts. In this case, Chuck lusts after a perfection that only God can provide. And anyone who does not meet it, is not worth to step foot in his church. It's like he forgot that he is a sinner, and thinks he actually has the ability to determine a persons righteousness before God, something only God can do.<br /><br />Continued...Uncle Dhttp://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-48609229405030158152012-06-29T17:25:15.930-07:002012-06-29T17:25:15.930-07:00In poking around the internet I found a discussion...In poking around the internet I found a discussion between Tim Challies and Bob Kellemen on spiritual abuse. Both have some healthy skepticism so may be helpful to those of you who are concerned that 'spiritual abuse' is simply a cover for grumblers. I like the working definition as well as the bullet points for identifying spiritual abuse. They don't address support and healing for those abused (at least in this article), but they do give some helpful ways of distinguishing abuse from normal conflicts in leadership. By helping us acknowledge that the abuse is real and giving a start at defining it they may serve to get us on the path of working on the elephant. The article is at http://www.challies.com/articles/spiritual-abuseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-28599644998815554702012-06-29T16:40:44.061-07:002012-06-29T16:40:44.061-07:00Fred reminds me of my cousin's EX-husband. He ...Fred reminds me of my cousin's EX-husband. He gets out of jail in November after serving three years of a five year sentence. He still<br />claims he was just taking a stand as the head of his household when he smacked my cousin around (hey sometimes you have to discipline the wife)assaulted three police officers (they are dammed to hell for interfering with his home) and resisted arrest. It is of course her fault for calling the police and rebelling against his God given authority. Although she divorced him, he claims she is still his wife and is coming "home" to work on her restoration. I took her to a gun show and she has become very proficient over the last year with her Glock 17. <br /><br />There is no limit to what some of these guys will spiritualize and attempt to justify as "scriptural". In Japan they once gave young brides daggers to kill themselves if the marriage was bad. With the growing trend of domestic violence within the church by these "spiritual leaders" and "godly men" perhaps we should start giving brides Guns so they can defend themselves<br /><br /> Fred is just a bully and not a very impressive one at that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-77802009338421767052012-06-29T15:25:17.493-07:002012-06-29T15:25:17.493-07:00Fred seems to have missed the multiple comments wh...Fred seems to have missed the multiple comments where I have said my husband okayed the Google review and blog. Oh, and look at the note on the very top of this post!! Fred, could you be skimming my posts? Tell me it isn't so!<br /><br />I have asked you 3 times: here, on your own blog, and on Twitter:<br /><br />Do you know my former pastor?<br /><br />I don't chronicle daily about my former church experience. For you to say that proves that you haven't read my blog and have lumped it into the category of the whining, complaining Spiritual Abuse bloggers that you post and tweet about. That's a mighty paint brush you've got going on there, Fred.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-14802442909440265912012-06-29T15:22:07.767-07:002012-06-29T15:22:07.767-07:00Lydia - Thank you so much for your encouragement. ...Lydia - Thank you so much for your encouragement. I love that verse. Yes, it is exhausting at times. Sometimes I think my strength comes from all of you who are praying for me. I could not do it on my own, that is for sure.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-9818311465333707892012-06-29T15:19:46.666-07:002012-06-29T15:19:46.666-07:00Luke - I am 100% in agreement with you. I feel li...Luke - I am 100% in agreement with you. I feel like a broken record: Can we quit focusing on Julie Anne and now deal with spiritual abuse? What are you doing about the spiritual abuse? What can we do to stop it, to help those, etc?Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-51869440184582621342012-06-29T15:17:56.920-07:002012-06-29T15:17:56.920-07:00I've been in the car for quite a few hours tod...I've been in the car for quite a few hours today, driving teens to camp. Blogging is portable and on days like this, I am moderating comments when I get to a red light/intersection. Pretty amazing technology we have. The hard part about moderating by phone is that I can't comment very well without my computer.<br /><br />But in my absence and now that I'm at my computer and can see the order of comments and read in context, I sure am impressed with the great responses. Thanks, Craig, Monax, A friend - - you really *get* what's going on here. <br /><br />I have no desire to debate Jude. My time is better spent elsewhere. Using the commentaries at home/online/and friend's commentaries available to me, I stand by my words and continue to think that Fred was out of line in using the scripture as he did. <br /><br />Doing investigative analysis on issues of why, how, when on Julie Anne really does not help those who have and are in spiritually abusive situations, does it? Let's get better focus on the real issue.Julie Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125322661578802590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-32835231930324341742012-06-29T11:34:43.106-07:002012-06-29T11:34:43.106-07:00Dino,
All Christians are to be priests, represent...Dino,<br /><br />All Christians are to be priests, representing Christ to the world and praying to God for the salvation of the world, both the individuals in it that we encounter and the entirety. All of us have been called to that ministry, some by preaching and teaching, some by caring for the sick, hungry, downtrodden and needy, some by lovingly working with children (ours and others'). All of us have a responsibility to be on guard for false teaching and to expose it. All of us have an obligation to love those who have been hurt by it.<br /><br />Julie Anne obviously has a dual ministry here. She is ministering to those injured by abuse in the church and she is sharing the word of warning about the abuser to protect others who might stumble into the flock of the wolf in shepherd's clothing.<br /><br />She has done a noble job in both of these ministries and is suffering at the hands of the abusers and excusers.<br /><br />Any who doubt her or seek to throw road blocks in her path need to repent!A friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-60956668039573289852012-06-29T11:03:55.106-07:002012-06-29T11:03:55.106-07:00Hey dino!
Fwiw, this blog for me is part of the s...Hey dino!<br /><br />Fwiw, this blog for me is part of the sanctifying process of working out my own salvation.<br /><br />And as i get to be my free and happy self-in-Christ here, it is my delight on this blog to participate in the delivering and healing work of the kingdom, even as this involves reproofs, rebukes and exhortations, even helping “others by snatching them out of the fire” (Jude 23). All these noble things as we corporately-in-Christ here contend for the faith.monaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-27477254222492525632012-06-29T11:01:15.710-07:002012-06-29T11:01:15.710-07:00Julie Anne says: "Imagine how easy it is for ...Julie Anne says: "Imagine how easy it is for a power-happy pastor to twist a verse out of context to control and manipulate his congregation to further his agenda. And the sheep follow, unknowingly, because they trust their pastor to be the man of God. They are led down paths of false teaching, distorted half-truths, never being able to understand the true meaning of the gospel, of grace, of redemption, of forgiveness."<br /><br />This is why the Bible says, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15). This command is not just for pastors and elders, but for all of us. I know in spiritual abuse, the pastor will often claim to have a special revelation or understanding of God's Word, but from this 2 Timothy verse, we know that is not true! <br /><br />Be affirmed in God's Word for yourself, Julie Anne. Trust God when He lays something on your heart to share or lays it on your heart not to share something. When you are in God's will for your life, you will face opposition. We have a very real Enemy bent on our destruction. He looks to our very weakest point and nails us there as hard as he can. <br /><br />I'm sure this is exhausting for you. I know there are a lot of emotions connected to spiritual things, and you never know what's going to trigger your emotions. It's hard when everyone is giving you their opinions on what you should or shouldn't be doing. It's hard when you have people telling you that you have to prove yourself.<br /><br />Dear Julie Anne, God doesn't ask you to prove yourself to me or to Mr. Butler. When you are in His will, He approves!Lydia Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-34599602266432352802012-06-29T10:39:35.931-07:002012-06-29T10:39:35.931-07:00Jesse, my name is David, and like the relationship...Jesse, my name is David, and like the relationship of our namesakes, I address you as a son to a father. I read your story twice, and I rejoice and thank the LORD with you and for you. One of the beautiful things about Julie Anne is her spirit of grace free of any bitterness. She wouldn’t be able to minister like she does if she were consumed with bitterness. <br /><br />One of the truths of scripture is that <i>unless</i> we freely forgive those who have sinned against us we can never be free ourselves. So I rejoice with you and Julie Anne and the others for the delivering and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in our lives.<br /><br />I like to make and eat fish tacos. I truly wish I could serve you up a tilapia taco for the tasting. Last time I made them they were pretty yum-yummy! I broke up a beer battered tilapia fillet inside a hot flour tortilla; covered the fish with some cooked-till-crisp and tender—sweet onions, mushroom, carrot, celery, cabbage with black beans; topped with fresh tomato, pineapple, parsley, banana pepper, and cheddar cheese. <br /><br />The secret to the yumminess, at least for my tastes, was in what I did to the meat. I marinated the fillet in a slightly hopped imperial stout; dipped it in egg, then a bread-crumb-and-flour concoction of paprika, blk pepper, cayenne powder, cumin, curry, chili powder, dried basil flakes; then I fried it in olive oil. None of my tilapia fillets have ever had a bone in it. Actually, I buy them that way, deboned. And even yet as I break up a fillet over a tortilla, if I were ever to discover a bone in the fish I’m serving, I would, of course, remove it. I want my guests to have full confidence in the cook as they devour my tilapia tacos, free from any hazard concerns.<br /><br />Jesse, you write: “If it is truth, it is not bad meat” and “perhaps we can take the meat, and spit out the bones.” <br /><br />So even if the meat is good, I still don’t want my eating experience inhibited by the possibility of swallowing a fish bone. We must always be discerning and aware as we feed off the fare of our teachers. But, No, I would not continue eating the food of a cook who doesn’t know how to take the bones out the meal. And also, even if it’s good meat, it’s how you present it, the toppings give it attitude, can either make or break the experience. <a href="http://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.com/2012/06/survival-methods-for-hyper.html?showComment=1339526728158#c8870455795265073516" rel="nofollow">Here’s my thoughts on this elsewhere</a>.<br /><br />“If it is truth...” you write. And there’s the rub.<br /><br />The reason I discourage people from feeding off the teachings of Fred Butler is because of what I have read from his blogs—there's a lot of bad meat and bones there! Some of the ‘truths’ and ‘attitudes’ being peddled are outright biblically <i>false</i> and <i>unchristian</i>. I would not recommend anyone eating the meat Fred Butler’s serving. <br /><br />Let’s change the meat analogy to that of a lens. The lens Fred Butler wants you to take as your own, the lens that he believes will help you make sense of the end times or church government are in themselves highly sophisticated fundamentalist lies, unbiblical doctrines which if you were to use as your lens to make sense of reality, it would only cause your vision to be even more skewed and blurred and blind. No wonder these teachers can’t see the bones or tainted meat they’re cooking up for us to eat. <br /><br />Jesse, I believe, I, also, understood the point you were making above. I trust you’ll also understand mine.<br /><br />With cheerful blessings to you! And, again, thank you for your story<br /><br />monaxmonaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-39352507315230845472012-06-29T10:37:40.141-07:002012-06-29T10:37:40.141-07:00Old Mom,
Because there is a God, and because His ...Old Mom,<br /><br />Because there is a God, and because His signature is all over His creation, many atheists and agnostics have doubts. We are question marks to them. They want to know if our beliefs are real. They look to see if we really follow what we say we believe. Many are very good at finding inconsistencies. I think that's a voice worth listening too. Paul seems to think the same. He confronts a church that tolerates behavior that is not tolerated even among pagans. He also directs us to choose elders that are "well thought of by outsiders".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-30079734715327048912012-06-29T10:08:52.767-07:002012-06-29T10:08:52.767-07:00I am the poster Anon@4:11. I will post under Dino ...I am the poster Anon@4:11. I will post under Dino from here on if I continue to post.<br /><br />Julie Anne,(if I may use your name) Old Mom has it right in terms of my comment on secular validation. I was using "appeal" in the judicial sense, as in "I appeal to the facts to prove my innocence" I did not mean to imply that you have solicited their support. <br /><br />As to Jude, I meant to say that it is not aimed at "only" the professional pastorate. A clear reading would show it is aimed at a body of Christians about the body of Christians. Its teaching certainly applies to the professional pastorate, but it also applies to everyone else. <br /><br />Paul writes to Timothy that good preaching/teaching (as in the professional pastorate)will consist of, 1. Reproof,2. Rebuke, and <br />3. Exhortation.<br /><br />My question to you would be; Are you engaging in Reproof (identifying bad behavior), Rebuke ( telling that bad behaviour needs to stop), and Exhortation (encouraging people to stop doing something or start doing something).<br />If so, then are you not under the same guidelines as Paul, Peter, and Jude outline for both professional pastors, leaders and members of the body of Christ.<br />If that is true, then how does this blog meet the test of "contending for the faith", that is the body of information that comprises the Gospel as originally given.<br /><br />To paraphrase Paul, it does'nt really matter what the world thinks of you and this blog, it doesnt even matter what you think of you and this blog, what matters is what God thinks, for he is the one who will judge.<br /><br />The only information we have about how God will judge is written in scripture through the office of the Holy Spirit. It is therefore highly important that we look at scripture to draw out what is true (Exegesis)n and not simply to use it to prove a point, or as justification for doing what we WANT to do rather than what it says to do.<br /><br />This applies equally to the leadership at BGBC, you, and those of us who are simply spectators of this, but participators in the daily struggle that is the Christian life.dinonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-60335770763008758942012-06-29T08:13:15.465-07:002012-06-29T08:13:15.465-07:00"I will love you IF you meet these conditions..."I will love you IF you meet these conditions, and I will shun you if you do not"Buffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-48250419926287861452012-06-29T08:08:43.514-07:002012-06-29T08:08:43.514-07:00So, ladies, let's recap:
1) Don't have an...So, ladies, let's recap:<br /><br />1) Don't have an opinion without checking with your husband first.<br />2) If your husband says your opinion is acceptable, check with your pastor next. <br />3) In the unlikely event that your pastor is a woman, because come on, women can't have opinions without approval, once you get your husband's approval and your female pastor's approval, be sure to get your female pastor's husband's approval before you have an opinion.<br /><br />Fred, you might try living in the present century at some point, just for an experiment.Buffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861198333046479177.post-39032671998566966972012-06-29T07:44:56.274-07:002012-06-29T07:44:56.274-07:00Anon 7:32 AM
If by secular you mean, atheist or ...Anon 7:32 AM<br /><br /><br />If by secular you mean, atheist or even non-Christian, why would one give credence to anything written in a book that was supposedly written by a God who does not exist, and take social norms (not suing each other, loving each other) from the teachings of someone who claimed to be this God?<br /><br />Can’t have it both ways. No God = no respect for the authority of His Word.<br />No resurrected Christ = no value to His teachingsOld Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15155868066239315301noreply@blogger.com