The hearing was moved later than scheduled and lasted about 2 hours. Our attorneys were very well prepared and were simply amazing. The plaintiff's attorney told the court they were dismissing one of the defendants from the lawsuit and also some of my phrases (we still need to see the court documents). These developments are positive.
The judge asked the attorneys to write up a "summary", no longer than 5 pages each due by a specific date and then the next (and hopefully final) hearing will be July 13.
My attorney just sent me an e-mail: this blog has over 100,000 hits. Yup, I guess this blog is of public interest. Thank you all for your support!
Thank you for sharing the update. That you have to go through this at all is ridiculous. Best of luck.
ReplyDeleteOh wow! That's both relieving and yet agonizing. To have to wait that much longer sucks. I was hoping that the Judge would take one look at the whole case and just say, "Uh... no" and dismiss it. Sounds like the plaintiff wanted more time to prepare their case. With the attention this case is getting, they can't afford to get it wrong. Even at their strongest though, they have already lost. It's so very sad. Praying for you Julie and the others. Stay strong in Christ.
ReplyDeleteThere is always a return date where a trial date is set and pretrial motions are heard, that's normal. My guess is this will actually go to trial. The defense should exercise their right to a jury trail because there isn't any mathematical scenario where it is possible for nine jury members to be seated that agree with "rev" o'neal. His church members, attenders or former ones would be disqualified as would friends and family. The plaintiff has a good chance of facing sanctions for filing such a ridiculous case. Regardless this psychotic,wackadoo of a pastor is the looser. He has made a national name for himself and not in a Billy Graham or Joel Osteen sort of way. More like Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs or David Koresh sort of way. He has made a national fool of himself and his relatively unsuccessful puny church. God help him if he ever needs to get hired for a different ministry position. He will always be the guy that lied about MacArthur's church advising him to sue to justify his national temper tantrum. Chucky you can't control the whole world, get over it AND YOURSELF.
DeleteRead up on the anti-SLAPP motion. My hunch is that it won't go to trial.
DeleteMy flesh may be tempted to comment on the rest of your post, but I'm asking God for an extra amount of restraint :)
Oh to be on that Jury. Totally not biased here at all. Totally want to hear all the facts before slamming a big "Not-Guilty" on this.
DeleteJulie Anne, I am praying for you and will continue to pray until this comes to an end.. Our family also suffered spiritual abuse. It is a horrendous thing to have to go through. I have a real passion for exposing the wicked shepherds out there!It is our duty to reveal truth about these wolves so they might stop beating God's sheep.... His will be done.
DeleteThanks for the update, Julie Anne, and for your perseverance. Both much appreciated ... Meanwhile, continuing to pray for all parties involved and for a righteous resolution.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the update. Maybe it's possible to make some money by selling some personalized wrist bands and pens with a motto on it. Possibly "WWJS" Who would Jesus sue. Sarcasm of course the kind you can't condone hehe =)
ReplyDelete:) Sounds like a great idea for a fundraiser to make money for therapy of those who suffer spiritual abuse!
DeleteWhat kind of 'therapy' do you recommend to these folks which isn't a waste of their time and money?
DeleteTherapy based on truth and grace.
DeleteLet's go with WWJA (Who would Jesus abuse) instead.
Delete"Therapy based on truth and grace."
DeleteYou need the Great Physician for that. Otherwise, what are they going to do when they suffer Psychological Abuse at the hands of the therapist? Join a church?
Yes, and many times God works through people: 2 Corinthians 1:4
DeleteFredericka: If you are sick, do you go to a doctor?
Thank you for the update, Julie Anne.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned earlier, I think the best possible outcome for this situation would be for Charles "Chuck" O'Neal to immediately withdraw his lawsuit and for him to pay the reasonable attorneys' fees and costs incurred by you and your lawyer.
I do NOT think you should be compelled, coerced, badgered or manipulated into signing a secret out-of-court settlement where you are forced to surrender your ability to share your concerns to the world via this blog, in exchange for a secret sum of money.
Also, I do NOT think you should be forced to sign a lifetime "non-disparagement" agreement regarding Charles (Chuck) O'Neal.
I think O'Neal's wisest strategy at this point would be a true and genuine withdrawal from this lawsuit, pay your legal defense attorneys fees and costs as a sign of repentance, and to leave you (Julie Anne) alone and undisturbed. No strings attached, no "gotcha" legal mumbo-jumbo and secretive stipulations on you, just have O'Neal drop the lawsuit!
I am very worried that O'Neal and his attorney don't quite understand that for the ministry work of Jesus Christ to occur in the hearts and minds of Americans, church leaders such as himself need to "knock it off" with the heavy-handed legal abuse of ex-members who wish to offer honest and sincere criticisms and feedback to others who have been wounded by abusive churches.
-RB
RB, I agree a perfect solution would leave her free to offer legitimate criticism of the church, but alleging, possibly contrary to fact, that the church allowed a known sex offender unrestricted access to children was not legitimate criticism unless true. If it's not true, then it's certainly defamatory. Now that it's in the courts it's a whole different ball-game. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
DeletePerhaps I have not read everything and missed it, but I have not seen a post on this blog or a review on Google reviews where Julie Anne stated the church allowed a known sex offender to have unrestricted access, etc......
DeleteIt's not defamatory. On my declaration provided to the court, I stated this:
DeleteI recall this conversation vividly because I remembered seeing K alone in the nursery area many times and specifically recalled seeing K there as I nursed my youngest child on the last day I attended services at BGBC in November of 2008, and many occasions prior to this.
So many people are glad for your update, Julie Anne! Yes, too bad about the delay, but this seems to be all part of the plan too, and that date should be the last part of it.
ReplyDeleteIn something I was writing about today, I was reminded about one of the songs from the musical: Joseph, the Dreamer, by Cam Floria from 1983.
This song is called: “When God Closes a Door, He Opens a Window.”
I was thinking about the words of this song for so many who find themselves outside of their home church and wonder just what is next....
It is a song of inspiration for the lot of us, whatever our challenge.
Anyway, I just found it on YouTube. See what you think. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3pyqGude9A
Everybody that thinks the pastor is wrong, and that the religious institution is falling apart needs to watch and listen to these 2 Youtube videos. This man explains what is going on, and this will arm you with knowledge and truth: Julie Anne, it is my humble opinion, that God is calling His people out, and He is probably using you, and your situation, as a nationwide wakeup call to His people.
ReplyDeleteWe are praying for you, that God would accomplish His purpose, and then defeat His enemies. Here are the 2 videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcNrOo5FzwY
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU9WH7HUDuk&feature=relmfu
Thanks for sharing this update. Will continue to pray for you. Stay strong and cling to the Lord as He will see you through! God will deal with people like him as anyone who is a "pastor" will be doubly accountable for how they "lead" the Lord's sheep and especially so if they abuse their calling, position and the people they are called to shepherd not control and abuse. Cults shun the true church does not. May the Lord minister greatly to you sister and don't worry - God already has something worked out related to this legal ploy. What he blames and claims you and others have put his family through he should really turn around and understand that he's the one that ultimately has put them through and I feel sad for his children and the congregation. This "story" is getting attention all over now and he better take note and see that he's playing with fire here and the day of accountability will come for him! I know first hand the wreckage he has caused as I saw people exit that church and come to where I was ministering and they really had to detox from what he was doing and yes, the standard line was "they are under church discipline" which I'm convinced that almost every case was what he said when people left "his" "church". It was very tough at times as many took out what happened to them on myself and others at times but I know why they did it. I remember a time where I and others on staff received a voice mail from him and it was very sad and infuriating to hear him pull the church discipline card so easily without providing any substantial evidence (there wasn't any) then stating we wouldn't be blessed by having basically "sinners" in our midst. Sorry to ramble here but let me simply encourage you in that the Lord will heal all of you as you cling to Him and keep seeking His face and The Holy Spirit's leading. Again, stay strong and keep pressing on in Jesus' name!
ReplyDeleteThis is the kind of story that people really need to understand. It's not just about leaving the church and moving on - it is about the damage inflicted, the recovery process, the healing, and moving on. Thank you for your sensitivity to my friends and showing them grace as they work through this difficult time in their lives, even when they hurt you.
DeleteThank you Anon. for sharing about the aftermath of these insidious situations. It gives us a unique view from your vantage point, a behind-the-scenes witness!
DeleteThank you for the discernment used and the care for those involved! I appreciate your taking the time to share this with us. We're glad you were there for those folks!
Julie Anne: Very true- there are longer lasting effects of spiritual abuse and that's part of why I wanted to share a little from as a pastor who tried to minister to several families that came out of that church broken, bitter, and again in need of detox from that situation. It wasn't easy but God's Grace is sufficient for us all and He is the great physician and I pray He'll continue that healing process in everyone's life who has been impacted.
DeleteBarb, Thank you! It's really a call of a true shepherd (under shepherd as Jesus is the Chief Shepherd) in my view to minister to those who He brings to you to minister. There's a statement that I once heard, "If you're called to be a shepherd, you better learn to love the smell of sheep." or something like that. Basically it's like God says come as you are and as a minister of the gospel - a shepherd - you have to allow people to come as they are and minister to them where they are (or from where they came from) no matter how hard it is at times....believe me it's tough sometimes especially in times like we've been discussing here. Helping others rise above their past as Jesus is in the process of sanctifying us all day-by-day until that day of perfection when we're finally with Him in heaven! :-) God loves us too much to allow His children to stay where they are so He continually will work on us and bring others around us to sharpen and minister to us. Praise Him for loving us so much! Keep pressing forward Julie and Barb!
DeleteI was part of a church that believed whatever the pastor said,cause he heard from God.When I was given direction contrary to God's will....I prayed. I opened my Bible & it fell to Ezekiel 12:2-3. I left that church ASAP & was shunned. It didn't matter that I was attending another Christian church....the devil had gotten a hold of me. They were the only true church. You did the right thing bringing this out. Many people don't know how true Christianity works and follow a pastor like a lost sheep instead of God. Check out that scripture and stay strong.
ReplyDeleteThank you, healthylife!
DeleteJulie Anne - thanks for the update.
ReplyDeleteA few things I learned over the past 4 years in these types of lawsuits:
- always expect the unexpected
- it is very difficult to know how a judge will rule even when you think you have it all figured out
- always expect delays, and then more delays, and then another delay
- there will be days when you think things are going your way and you're sure to win, and days you are certain your ship is sunk. You have to hang in there and not get too high and don't get too low
- always trust your lawyer, even if you think they aren't doing enough or you can't understand the strategy or you think it should be done differently. A good lawyer will hear their client out, and then try to explain their strategy.
I have more, but that is enough for now!!
Thanks for that advice, Tom!
DeleteThanks for bringing us up to speed, Julie Anne. You stay strong and we will continue praying.
ReplyDeleteSMG
Thanks, Sergius!
DeleteI am here loyaly day in and day out....i share you on my Facebook regularly...i see this abuse everywhere and applaud you for standing up and standing out!!!! I emaled your ex pastor about hi a actions and blows...in reply i got almost the identical statement i read in his blog... his "disclaimer"....his entire message was cold and humanless....i live to see you win this case and praise God in his face!!!!!
ReplyDeleteVeronica - thank you helping to draw attention to this sad and difficult issue. Not many want to hear it.
DeleteThanks!
Jeremiah 23
ReplyDeleteKing James Version (KJV)
23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord.
I haven't read these verses in a while. So perfect in the light of spiritual abuse. So powerful! Thank you for sharing them.
Deleteas a cult survivor myself, i support you and your family 110 percent!
ReplyDeleteexpose the wolves, not to mention exercising your right to free speech.
Thanks, Robin!
DeleteI'm watching this with great interest. My blog gets hits from time to time from attorneys in particular venues that are close to particular churches that I write about. This happens often, and could be a coincidence, but I kinda doubt it. I have been threatened with lawsuits at least twice.
ReplyDeletePaul - through this experience, I discovered that many, but not all, home owner's insurance policies carry personal injury protection for legal fees. :) It's great to have you here, BTW.
DeleteJullie Anne
ReplyDeleteMay I reprint this at TWW? Folks are asking. I wish it didn't take so long but I, too, believe that this is positive.
absolutely!
Delete"Fredericka: If you are sick, do you go to a doctor?"
ReplyDeleteHi Julie Anne. I would go to a doctor who employs methods of demonstrated efficacy, not a quack. This means that, if you track sick people who received the treatment versus those who received no treatment, more of the first group got better than the control group who received a placebo. Are you aware that many popular forms of psychotherapy, like for example Freudian therapy, have no demonstrated efficacy at all? That is why the insurance companies no longer reimburse for that form of therapy. I suspect with very little effort you can rummage around the web and find support groups for people who believe they've been harmed by psychotherapy. What good does it do to flip people out of the frying pan and into the fire?
Are you implying that those requiring mental health care would go to a quack before finding a competent mental health care professional? I'm not getting your statement.
DeleteJulie Anne wrote, "Are you implying that those requiring mental health care would go to a quack before finding a competent mental health care professional?"
DeleteHi Julie Anne. I don't think anyone knowingly visits a quack. However, for most of the twentieth century, people who were sent to what they were told was "a competent mental health care professional" were, in fact, visiting a quack. There is not much argument left about that now; in France they still do Freudian therapy, even for autistic kids if you can believe it, but they don't elsewhere. I'm not so sure that this particular field has lately solved all its problems and is now offering good value for the money. Why are you sure of that?
Why are we still talking about Freud?
DeleteI have seen positive results in counseling and/or therapy. However, I have yet to see any positive comment regarding the topic of counseling or therapy from you, but don't have time to debate with you about this subject, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
I do encourage those who are having difficulties to seek help - from a friend, counselor or even therapist if need be. God uses people to help one another.
Hi. Just wanted to say that as a spirtual abuse survivor, you've got my prayers.
ReplyDelete@Fredricka re: psychologists. The most popular form of psychotherapy these days is cognitive based therapy not Freudian. Most insurance companies do pay for psychotherapy (I know because I work for an insurance carrier). In fact many states have a parity rule in place that ensures that mental health benefits are provided at the same level as medical care.
Cognitive therapy works to address the way a person currently thinks and how that thinking can be preventing them from leading happy productive lives. It doesn't spend so much time on the subconcious as in Freudian.
I don't know you, so I have no way of knowing but the way you speak seems to me like someone who has implanted fears regarding the mental health practitioners. While it is true there are some unscrupulous practitioners out there. The same can be said of any profession. Including physicians and pastors.
As for those who specialize in the needs of those suffering from spiritual abuse, there is a facility located in Ohio called Wellspring that does just that.
Thanks for your comment, Mickey. If Fredericka fully understood the effects of spiritual abuse, she might be speaking differently.
DeleteJulie Anne wrote, "If Fredericka fully understood the effects of spiritual abuse, she might be speaking differently."
DeleteHi Julie Anne, why is 'spiritual abuse' the best way to describe your experience? Given your former church's form of church governance, 'elder rule,' I wouldn't have liked that church either. On my way out the door I would have said, 'this church is run in an elitist and tyrannical manner, not at all following the New Testament pattern.' But there are ways of addressing a dispute like that which are on the up and up. Identifying yourself as the 'victim' and your former pastor as the 'abuser' seems to me like a dirty hold in wrestling, you are making him look bad without ever saying anything that will convince him he is wrong.
Fredericka, if you think that there is something you could say to convince chuck that he is wrong by all means have at it. Consider this a challenge. The point is, Julie Anne, did try to have a conversation with chuck. The elder who was fired before all of this was fired for approaching chuck with parishoner questions that threatened chucks authoratative position. chucks answer has never been to question himself, rather rid himself of nay sayers near by.
DeleteMickey wrote, "I don't know you, so I have no way of knowing but the way you speak seems to me like someone who has implanted fears regarding the mental health practitioners."
ReplyDeleteHi Mickey. What is an implanted fear, is that like an ingrown toe-nail? Years ago they used to say, 'If Freudian psychotherapy were a drug, the FDA wouldn't let you sell it.' What that meant is that Mr. Freud's 'discoveries' about the human psyche had no demonstrated therapeutic value. Yet how many fortunes were made selling that whole schtick to a gullible public!
"As for those who specialize in the needs of those suffering from spiritual abuse, there is a facility located in Ohio called Wellspring that does just that."
Why does this not surprise me?
Fredericka - Your comments are not very helpful to those who are hurting and vulnerable as they are dealing with the emotional issues of spiritual abuse. We won't be debating Freud here. Thanks.
DeleteFredericka - you just got your first comment removed. I will not post comments that re-victimize those who have been hurt. This is a blog for support, not a place to debate whether or not there is such a thing as spiritual abuse or whether all therapy is evil, etc.
DeleteLOL - Let 'em get to you Julie?
DeleteFredricka is just pointing out that most do not need pychotherapy or any treatement to find a new church. For most, there is not much drama. You just leave, to keep from creating a stir and let people make their own minds up.
I am beginning to smell fish here. If I did not know better, I might suspect that you are looking for an excuse to sue somebody.
LSWTH
My snark-meter is going on overload. You simply cannot find a new church.
DeleteRead that last sentence again. If it does not make sense, then you have not read the blog to know what I'm talking about.
Wow...Chuck and the minions who caused you such grief keep finding ways to come back and do it all over again, don't they?
Delete"Fredericka" and "LSWTH" are baiting you - and you don't need me to tell you that you're smart enough not to fall for it. Otherwise, their posts are good for a laugh.
And "Fredericka" above sounds like...it wouldn't surprise me if "she" either engaged in the practice of or believes in the efficacy of, Gay Conversion Therapy. She deals in Orwellian "Doublespeak", which is a 50-buck word that perfectly encompasses her particular brand of "bat-s***" crazy. I wonder if she's from Arid-zona?
By the way, Julie Anne - you have friends here: www.johnshore.com.
Whoever is minimizing the results of spiritual abuse is clearly not understanding the anguish it can cause. Saying things like "just leave" or "talk to the minister" are based on a completely naive point of view.
ReplyDeleteIf you doubt the power of one who uses religion to control and think it is so easy to leave and ignore the results then read about or watch the documentary on Jim Jones. Or read history...the early catholic church controlled everything. If you went against it you were considered a heretic and tortured.
I was raised in a church like this. I can tell you it has affected my entire life. My parents broke free and my mom and her brother didn't talk for years. If you left you were excommunicated from everyone under control of the church.
You are so right. Many people aren't understanding that much of the abuse happened AFTER leaving the church.
DeleteChuck and his people go after people: come to homes unannounced, uninvited, sometimes with tape recorders. At this point, since starting the blog, a lot of people have disclosed their personal stories. Some of these stories are shocking and you would get a very clear picture of someone who meddles in the private affairs of others long after they have left the church. It is invasive. It is entirely inappropriate. Many are living in fear. It must be stopped. These people who have left need to be free to move on with their lives without harassment.
Some of the stories are true. 99% are gossip and trolls that are yanking everyone's chain.
DeleteJulie Anne, if you are not angling for a law suit, then I don't know what you hope to accomplish here. This is pretty stupid stuff if you ask me for my opinion. Looks like a bunch of old ladies that don't know anything except what they see in front of them. Hyper narrow minded. Maybe I will click a link or two for you.
LSWTH
I am sure you've already been told this many times, but check out www.citybusinesschurch.org/blog for a good reference point on how to maintain such a blog and deal with idiots in the church.
ReplyDeleteGood luck to you!
Re: defamation. I'm not a legal expert here, but...
ReplyDeleteHow can you defame somebody who has already defamed their own character by their own actions? I mean, it's not like you revealed secrets or anything. Many people already knew about this stuff.
To all who read here:
ReplyDeleteI am an attorney who works with churches and other non-profits, and who otherwise represents the abused and the poor (those two are basically redundant much of the time). Chuck has done everything he accuses Julie Anne of doing, in spades, and more. So his suit is merely documentary proof of his gross hypocrisy, which is not an offense in our legal system, but surely is in the eyes of our Lord.
The Anti-SLAPP motion should be granted and, if so, Julie Anne's attorney will get her fees and expenses paid by Chuck and the church. Perhaps enough of the members will react in such a way as to put a stop to Chuck's abuses of the church, the Bible, and the will of our Lord and Savior, which is to live in love and not in fear, by faith and not hundreds of rules, and by forgiveness and fellowship, not excommunication.
Arce - To say that "Chuck has done everything he accuses Julie Anne..." is an admission that both are acting unreasonably.
DeleteIf you take one party at face value, don't you have to take the other party at face value as well? Has Chuck lied somewhere? Julie is not denying what Chuck is saying is false. Julie is just saying that she has the right to free speech to the extent that it inflicts damage on others and she does not have to pay a penalty. What a great country!
Both are clearly wrong. Neither has the right to say things about the other that inflicts damage. Both are damaging the church. Chuck is in a position that he could have been magnanimous. You really have to look at who started this and what got things to this point.
Julie Anne has made some allegations that she is going to have difficulty proving and from the looks of the declaration she has already admitted that much of her assertions are based on assumption and hear say.
Pathetic foolishness for both party's.
Has Chuck lied somewhere? I believe so. In the original Google review he posted that we were Biblically put out of the church. You should be able to find that in one of the first reviews (you'll have to scroll back a ways since there are over 960 reviews now).
DeleteYet in the MSNBC interview and in the court declarations, it was said that we left on our own accord. Chuck can't have it both ways: either we left on our own accord or we were put out "Biblically". But actually, I will say that neither one of those is correct. We were not Biblically put out, we were told we were not welcome and it had nothing to do with the Bible.
http://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.com/2012/05/few-notes-from-julie-anne.html
Anonymous 5/27, 3:38 pm
ReplyDeleteJulie did not initiate legal action for defamation, Chuck did. And the burden of proof is on him to prove the defamation or he loses. That requires that he prove that Julie said what he says she said, in context. That it was not opinion based on fact, but a statement of that could be factual but false. That it was false, in context. That it was said knowing it was false or recklessly in disregard of whether it was true or false with malicious intent. That he and/or the church were damaged financially, and that can't be speculative. Further, because it involves a church and matters of religion, he must prove that the statements were not part of a religious controversy involving a church with the statements having to do with scriptural interpretation or religious doctrinal issues.
Julie can have relied on hearsay if she had reason to believe the person who told her was a trustworthy source or there was some form of corroboration.
Just because Chuck is a pastor does not give him license to abuse, to ignore a child sexual abuser in the church if he becomes aware of it. He must act, report, and take steps to protect the children of the church or he can be liable, criminally for not reporting, and civilly for not acting to protect children in the church.
Further, Anonymous, saying that Chuck has done everything that he accuses Julie Anne of doing does not mean that his accusations toward her are true, and in fact, many have not been shown to be so.
ReplyDeleteJust people are reading your blog does not mean they agree with you
ReplyDelete