People may be pure in their own eyes,
but the Lord examines their motives. Proverbs 16:2
but the Lord examines their motives. Proverbs 16:2
I have been notified of even more updates at the Beaverton Grace Bible Church website which "coincidentally" occurred less than 2 days after the post on Damage Control - How Do I Look - discussing their preoccupation with "image" over important matters.
Do we have more Damage Control going on? You tell me:
I mentioned the church's summer car washes in the post and how it was used
as an evangelical outreach and coincidentally there is a new webpage
describing the car wash outreach with a cutesy picture.
I
mentioned "Bonnet Brigade" the new club for girls (including a photo showing young girls
wearing bonnets working together on projects) - and now the picture has
been changed to a young girl sitting behind a sewing machine (wearing
no bonnet).
I mentioned that there had been no new sermons posted in eight months. A couple new ones were added from (preached seven months ago). Oops - I just checked the website to double-check my facts again and a new sermon was posted within the time I have been working on this post, this one is dated six months ago. So a total of three new sermons were added since my post of two days ago.
So . . once again, while they have been busy in an attempt to clean up their public image, doing "damage control", the church and Chuck O'Neal leave a path of destruction among former members: shunning, broken relationships, fear, emotional trauma, broken families, and so many hurt feelings. I do not see any effort to reach out and restore relationships while this "damage control" is going on. As a responsible shepherd, the ball is in his/their court to seek out those who have been hurt. The website makeover only reveals what he and "those around him" have been doing to busy themselves while avoiding their responsibility of cleaning up their fallout.
Disclaimer: the phrase "the church and Chuck O'Neal leave a path of destruction among former members" - - - - this is the type of phrase that has been used in the defamation lawsuit against me. When I am posting on this blog, I am keenly aware that anything I post might be used against me. I am not afraid to post this phrase. It is the truth as I see it. It is my opinion, but I also have plenty of documentation and witnesses to back it up. Give the poor (poor meaning "unfortunate", not "penniless") attorneys a break.
One final note regarding the BGBC website specifically directed to the web designer: once again, I am in an awkward position, but am compelled in the spirit of "do unto others". A reader informed me of this: evidently if you click on "Blog" on the home page and then click on any blog post, there is a small icon just to the left of the title which enables anyone to edit the blog. Some unscrupulous people might take advantage of that situation. I'm sure none of my readers would stoop to that level. Chuck's posts speak for himself. But hopefully the "Webmistress" will take care of that oversight.
fyi~only the 'owner' of that blog can delete
ReplyDeletewell...I just now tried, and I could've deleted and or changed info in the blog...but I didn't. It should be taken care of, before someone not so nice decides to change info.
ReplyDeleteExactly - - I hope someone would post and let me know if I left something uncompromised here.
DeleteThe revision of their website made me think of the pitcher plant. Pretty on the outside, not what the bug bargained for on the inside. I can hear you googling it now Julie Anne :)
ReplyDeleteI did look it up! Great analogy!
DeleteWhat you are describing is rank hypocrisy. Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks at the heart.
ReplyDeleteYou said: "So . . once again, while Chuck/church, has been busy in an attempt to clean up their public image, doing "damage control", the church and Chuck O'Neal leave a path of destruction among former members: shunning, broken relationships, fear, emotional trauma, broken families, and so many hurt feelings."
This is well said. Just a warning to those still at BGBC...This likely will happen to you if you question or disagree with the leadership. Why have so many people left? Who is being divisive? Those who have questions? NO...Chuck is causing division and is trying to control who you can talk to. Trying to control even what's written here. That is not normal! Look up cultic tendencies. No one ever thinks they are in a cult who IS IN ONE.
Matthew 6:1-4
“Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
Great post, Julie Anne. I have never felt the "love" since I left. People you knew for years never talk to you again....and they supposedly love Christ. Hmmm. Is there something missing in this picture?
ReplyDeleteYa, just "fix up" the website and put a lot of happy Google/Dex reviews and it's all good! Nevermind all those pesky people that have been trampled on all these years. Just ignore them and they'll all go away.
I'm just not feeling the love....just sayin'.
Thankfully, I am hearing story after story of people reconnecting and finally experiencing that love: in new churches, with former members, etc. That gives me hope.
DeleteIt's interesting how when I was attending I mentioned it would be nice for the girls to get together and learn some homemaking skills and that idea was promptly shot down and disregarded as unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteOh really? Wow. I always thought it was weird that there was no ladies Bible study, too.
DeleteWhen I asked why there was no ladies bible study I was told because ladies gossip too much. Ridiculous! Every church I've ever been to has ladies Bible studies.
DeleteYup - I heard the same thing. We can't have a ladies Bible study and we can't ask questions during Sunday school because we're supposed to be asking our husbands who are supposed to be leading us. What about the single ladies (by divorce, death, separation, unsaved, you name it)? Do they not count?
DeleteMy church does not have a ladies Bible study proper, but we do have women who meet 3 or 4 together for study when there is expressed a need for encouragment or discipleship - our pastor would not, except perhaps in extreme circumstances (but I can't think of any), suggest that people should not meet together to study God's Word. Also, our ladies meet several times a year - about once every month or six weeks for a devotion and fellowship time. There is less for the men, but I am encouraging my husband to get more involved with the men and maybe start planning events on his own. I love having a church where all members in good standing are able to be part of, plan and host church events as they see fit - within reason of course :) I think Chuck took the scriptures regarding women being silent in the church a little too far.
DeleteGrace Community Church, John MacArthur's church, has question and answer sessions where men, women, and children ask Pastor MacArthur questions. These sessions are available on the Grace to You website. I only bring this up because Chuck supposedly esteems MacArthur so much.
DeleteChuck's teaching about women being silent is out of balance and authoritarian.
I am a former member of GBGC. I am very thankful for your post, specifically your reference to Pastor John Mac Arthur, whom chuck often refers to. In fact, I was told that I was reading an inferior, error rife translation of the Bible and needed to procure as soon as possible a JMA study Bible, with specific instructions that it not be a red letter edition (Jesus's words in red) as chuck did not like these versions. At that point in my life my severely abusive husband had just abandoned me leaving me financially destitute. I was struggling to pay rent and put food on the table for my two very young children. Ironically, it was the pastor and congregation of my former church (lutheran, which chuck completely discredited) who was helping me get food, navigate through the DHS system to receive assistance, and who "gifted" me the retainer for legal representation in my husband's felony abuse trial. Now I had to count change to come up with the ~$70.00 to buy the right Bible to prove I was serious about seeking after God. It was in this same time period that chuck delivered the prohibition against women speaking or asking questions in our Bible study. We were to go through our husbands. As the only single person in my type of position at that point (not a venerated widow) even chuck claimed I was an unusual problem. He instructed me to set up formal meetings with 2 or more of the church staff with my prepared list of questions. When I left this church and became a member at my new Bible church I also involved myself in several Bible studies. It took some time before people realized that I was not illiterate, uninvolved, or handicapped with severe shyness that prevented me from being an interactive part of our group study which actually invited/included verbal participation, especially since a large part of our studies included home bible study questions which were set up for the intention of discussion. How was I supposed to explain that I had been taught my role was to be silent to show that I was submissive and not disobediently rebelling against male authority?
DeleteChuck made it clear that one of the reasons for this gospel + rule was because as women we were incurable gossips. How this applies to seeking answers in a Bible study I am not clear. Ironically the gossip net at BGBC is actually headed by and for chuck. He has files on every member filled with the information he stockpiles - I shudder to think of what for. Although in light of the current lawsuit I suppose it becomes more clear. MANY times I shared personal information regarding abuse, legal battles, etc, only to be shocked when I was confronted by chuck on something personal in my life that he didn't agree with.
Being in a church which allowed me to speak and grow has been amazing. I've grown more in the first few months since leaving BGBC then I had during my entire stay at BGBC.
And now your review is gone altogether, but the pastor's insane rantings about defamation are still there. The reviewer who said they would never attend a church with so much drama sure got it right.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying a review I posted is gone? Can you summarize the review that you believe is missing? I just checked the Google site and don't see anything missing.
DeleteThere are no Google reviews by Julie Anne on BGBC anymore.
DeleteIt is true that there are no more reviews on Google under the name "Julie Anne".
DeleteMy original DexKnows review is showing now. The user name is "Concerned Christian":
http://www.dexknows.com/business_profiles/beaverton_grace_bible_church-b269546?mkt=62901
I have tried to delete a comment posted from 8 years ago when I was blind but it says I can't. I also asked he take it off and it is still there...no biggy, I have asked and he shows he won't do as asked. Just further proof of control and manipulation. I know I don't believe in his preaching nor teaching anymore and have posted it on sermonaudio...under guestbook remarks. If he or the person responsible for deleting the comments won't that is just the way it is....in my OPINION!
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about it, Meaghan. It is a testimony of your life of where you once were and look where you are now!
DeleteNo regrets! You are an amazingly strong woman with such a huge heart. Those things you went through only have made you what you are today. So privileged to be your friend :)
Meaghan, I think it is almost good in a way that your post remains. I know that probably sounds weird to you. Look at it this way though - your posts are "living proof" that we are not all just on some bandwagon looking for someone to hate. In many ways BGBC seemed like the right place to be. We were all there voluntarily, some for many years, listening to some very convincing teaching, and trying to follow the Lord. For each one of us it took time for the Lord to open our eyes and mature us to the point where we could see that is NOT where God wanted us, and move on. It is a vital part of your story.
DeleteDamage control = Putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig, people!
ReplyDeleteLoved the article on KATU and this does sound like a crazy control freak type of church. I am tempted to come in in my grungiest clothes and worship and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteyou can try that at my church, and nobody would say anything, except "HI, welcome to____Church" everyone is welcome just the way they are.
DeleteThat's as it should be, Craig! Wonderful!
DeleteOh, this church is a CULT. There is no doubt about it. I have a friend who had been a member. She was a little scary when she was into that church. She had the "one TRUTH" and everyone else was going to hell. And of course, forget any logical discussions about sexual orientation or abortion. This church made SURE she never, EVER actually engaged in THINKING.
ReplyDeleteWhen she left the church, she was literally shunned. It was terrible - and very painful to her. But she confessed, she had done the same to others. The pastor holds himself up as some sort of special pipeline to God. She feels he doesn't have a conscience - just power hungry and narcissistic. Awful, awful church. Any church that claims to have a unique truth that condemns most people to hell (stupid concept) and excludes others is cruel... and it's a cult. There really isn't any other word for it. It's a cult.
i have to ask why you need anyone to explain to you what Jesus or God wants. It's in the bible for you to read. When you read books do you usually have to ask someone else what it means? My problem with churches like this is they rely so heavily on the old testament. As a Christian, I think what Jesus said would overrule everything else. Jesus said love thy neighbors as thyself. Jesus is kind and caring and accepting of everyone. let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I am no longer a Christian, yet I always go back to what I was taught and read about Jesus when helping me to do right. You all are smart enough to do this by yourselves.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of having a pastor lead his flock is antiquated. It should be a shared journey of like minded people. That way this type of corruption of the word of god is not used for evil.
This is a problem everywhere.I attended a non-denominational church years ago in which the Pastor practiced similar techniques.It is a power trip.One thing we need to do is keep this all in perspective.Is it ALL human 'control' and our reactions to it...or is some/much of it also our fleshly reactions to submitting ourselves to His Lordship.Now,I know there is a fine line between the two.And I know post-Christian,modern American society rejects the Gospel for the most part.However,let's not be misled by humanistic attitudes that would label every act of submission to God as archaic and superstitious.There IS a tendency for the underlying feminist values in US society,which have in recent years,been 'mainstreamed' thanks to the liberal media to be integrated into the more moderate churches.There is the fear of appearing to ne misogynistic.There is the popularized tendency to have to'feel good about oneself,one's sexuality,one's self worth' and so much more.It can all pretty much be summed up in the trite phrase'you go girl!' That phrase can be applied to just about any type of behavior,wether it be bucking authority or purposely choosing to become a single mom by seeking out a 'donor' then dumping him.You name it. No,we must,as Christians,be extremely careful in not allowing prevailing,humanistic trends to determine and/or influence our own personal choices and behaviors.In those situations,only the Holy Spirit can be our guide.There is nothing wrong or abusive about fundamental Biblical beliefs.When pastors become abusive then it becomes something ugly and destructive.
ReplyDeleteI must say that Chuck doesn't know me but I know him and while he preaches about modest dress, I can't say that his wife dresses unwholesome but she doesn't wear a bonnet and a long dress or high necked garb as I see them both in shorts and t-shirts at costco all of the time. Do as I say not as I do is what he seems to be about. He also rails against psychology but guess what his degree is in? Psychology according to the school he attended.
ReplyDelete