Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Edwin Young and Touch Not Mine Anointed $1,000 Challenge

It may seem that I am picking on Faith Tabernacle and Edwin/Jordan Young.  It is true that their names are in the media spotlight lately, but they represent a lot of what is going on in churches.  I'm attempting to highlight the spiritual abuse patterns that are showing up in churches all over.  In order to understand abuse, we must identify it.  Today, I'm spotlighting the very common belief in some churches that the pastor is the "Man of God".  

As we have discussed the Edwin Young/Jordan Young resignation and sex abuse charges against Jordan Young at Faith Tabernacle in Junction City, we've read some comments about the pastors being pretty high up on the exaltation and adoration scale.  Sometimes I'm wondering if the folks from these churches are giving more credibility to the extra-Biblical words of their pastors, aka "man of God", than the actual words in their own Bible.  We must know what the Bible says for ourselves.  I know right now there are some readers who are seething at my words.  Stay with me, people.   

One thing we've heard loud and clear is that I (or anyone) should not be criticizing their pastor.  It doesn't matter if their pastor has morally failed, he still is held up as the "Man of God":

Since the resignation, numerous allegations of financial misconduct (taking out and keeping a $750,000 loan on the church) and immorality (it has been alleged he slept with around a dozen young women, at least 18 years old, from the church) have been made as people have seemingly come out of the woodwork.  (http://www.spiritualabuse.org/experiences/lawsuits/edwin_young.html)

Read one reader's response to me for criticizing this "Man of God":

AnonymousAugust 20, 2012 2:42 PM
Woman i fear for your soul.. i dont go to that church but i have heard him preach.. and whether u believe it or not he was annointed and i would highly advise you to shut your running mouth being sarcastic that was Gods annointed irreguardless of if he did had wrong u need to keep your mouth shut.. and for the record i am a woman as well not "bashing" you because you are a woman

He's anointed regardless of what he did wrong?  Really?  Does this woman have a Bible that mentions looking at the fruit in one's life and the qualifications of a pastor?  Who tore those pages out of her Bible?  I bet I can tell you which Bible verses are underlined in her Bible (Hebrews 13:17 for start).

He must have been some man.  But was he anointed?  And am I wrong to criticize the former and current pastors' preaching style and behaviors?  

I was checking out my friend, Kevin's YouTube videos.  

Kevin is also known as NYTN (Not Your Typical Negro) and posts videos exposing abuses in the church.  He is offering a $1,000 challenge.  The published date was Feb. 2011, but I contacted Kevin to see if the offer still stands.  It does!!  Ok, readers, the challenge is on.  Would you like a little extra pocket change?  See if you can get yourself some moolah!!  Check this out:

Quoting from Kevin's YouTube description:
● I have read many comments on the Internet and received many emails regarding this notion that one should not "put their mouth on" a "man" or "woman of God". In other words, the Bible supposedly forbids ridiculing or criticizing their behavior or statements, or questioning and disagreeing with them publicly. Instead, you should just pray and leave it to God. And if you "put your mouth" on the "man" or "woman of God", there will be dire consequences, such as death or some kind of curse. So in effect, today's "bishop", "prophetess" or "pastor" is BETTER THAN JESUS (who Himself was lied on, talked about, mocked, spit on, and killed, and nothing apparently happened to the people involved).

● I am not sure what people mean by "man of God" or "woman of God". I will assume they mean a person in ministry with a "title". Having established that, I present my challenge.

● I have $1,000 that I'm going to donate to churches, charities and individuals anyway. But I would like to be a blessing to your church, your charity of choice, or some other individual in need that you may know. So then, I WILL PAY TO ANY INDIVIDUAL OR DONATE TO ANY ORGANIZATION, THE SUM OF ONE THOUSAND US DOLLARS for EACH OF THE FOLLOWING (a thru c) presented to me:

a) One example of anyone in the Bible that God punished for ridiculing or criticizing the behavior or statements of a minister/pastor, or for questioning or disagreeing with a minister/pastor.

b) One single, solitary verse of scripture that states OR implies one should not ridicule or criticize the behavior or statements of a minister/pastor, or that one should not question or disagree with a minister/pastor.

c) The passages of scripture which collectively show that the ONLY response to false/questionable teachings and corrupt/abusive practices by ministry leaders is to "leave it to God" and do nothing but just pray.

Thanks for watching and participating!

Ok, readers, it's on!  Please let me know if you win the jackpot! 


  1. For those from Faith Tabernacle, they need to listen to what their new pastor has to say about someone who is not living right. In this video, Nathan Dudley says more than once that if you are not doing what is right, then you are not of God. Those who say no one should be saying anything negative about Edwin or Jordan Young need to consider that the new pastor teaches this. Thus, it would be okay to speak of them, as according to what Nathan Dudley teaches, Edwin and Jordan Young are not of God. Even Nathan Dudley himself has said things about Edwin, according to those who have heard him in service.


    1. Thank you, Lois, for the info and video link. When I look at the stats on the posts here on Edwin Young, there may not be a lot of people commenting, but they are clearly reading. It is important that the truth is exposed and the word is getting out. Literally thousands of people have read them. I find that quite remarkable. Maybe the climate is such that they are afraid to comment. Regardless, I pray that God will use this blog to help others to find the truth.

    2. I neglected to mention that the quote is found near the end of the video clip. This is the part of his sermon that led into the one you previously shared about not being saved without a pastor and imitating a pastor.

      I would like to hear from those who say Edwin and Jordan should not be discussed--- AFTER they have listened to what Pastor Dudley himself says.

    3. Ok, I just listened to a bit of it. If you start at 7:30 you can hear a bit of the biblical reference - around 8:00 he discusses admonishing those who are astray and do not keep company with them, etc.

  2. Wow - I like Kevin - aka - “NYTN” - a lot.

    “NYTN” writes...
    “a) One example of anyone in the Bible that God punished
    for ridiculing or criticizing the behavior or statements of a minister/”pastor,”
    or for questioning or disagreeing with a minister/”pastor.”

    I’d like to add some - Challenging - questions to that search - For “the Man of God.”
    But NOT to the $1000 Challenge - Because I coudda missed it. ;-)

    Was wondering...
    Can anyone produce - One Example...

    In the Bible - Where one of His Disciples - Are “Called” - Pastor/Leader?
    In the Bible - Where one of His Disciples - “Call themself” - Pastor/Leader?
    In the Bible - Where one of His Disciples - Have the “Title” - Pastor/Leader?
    In the Bible - Where one of His Disciples - Are Hired or Fired - as a - Pastor/Leader?
    In the Bible - One congregation - “Led” by a - Pastor/Leader?

    And every “Pastor/Leader” I’ve met - has the “Title” - Reverend.

    In the Bible - Does any one of His Disciples - Have the “Title” - Reverend?

    Jer 50:6
    “My people” hath been “lost sheep:”
    **their shepherds** have caused them **to go astray,**

    1 Pet 2:25
    For ye were as “sheep going astray;”
    but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    I’m Blest - I’ve returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of my soul...

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    1. Kevin is very good at what he does. I really appreciate how he is standing for the truth and exposing false teachings.

    2. Amos Love, consider 1 Corinthians 9:3-12 in regards to your question of hiring a pastor.

      This is my defense to those who would examine me. Do we not have the right to eat and drink? Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?

      Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?

      and 1 Timothy 5:17-18

      Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

    3. monax

      I’m familiar with the verses you mention...
      “is it too much if we reap material things from you?”
      “The laborer deserves his wages.”

      These verses are about receiving material gain - Which I agree with and practice.
      BUT - I do NOT see anything about - Hireing or Fireing.

      The first is for - those who “Travel” from place to place - Hard to keep a steady job.
      And in the second the “Elder” is required to “Rule Well.” That’s the conundrum.

      Rule - Here is Strongs # 4291 - proistemi - pro-is'-tay-mee
      KJV - rule 5, maintain 2, be over 1; 8
      In Thayers - proistemi means - to set or place before, to be over, to superintend...
      BUT - proistemi also means - to be a protector or guardian, to give aid, care for...

      So, it seems “ruling well” - protecting - guarding - giving aid - is only discovered in someone - over a period of time. In the Bible - the elders who were appointed were known - They were part of this group - And - They were already eldering - protecting and careing for folks - “Serving them.” How can you Hire or Fire someone to protect, guard and give aid - If you do NOT know their character, or integrity? Certainly NOT by a “Title”  on a business card. A “Title” NOT found in the Bible

      That’s why I ask - Often - In the Bible...
      Can you name anyone who - Had the “Title” - Pastor/Reverend/Leader?

      And Jesus said He is the “ONE” Shepherd...

      And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
      them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
      and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
      John 10:16

      One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice - One leader

      {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

  3. David was called a man after God's own heart. Nathan's "You are the man" was a crushing criticism. David's response is well worth study. I'd suggest that any who are considered leaders in the church respond to criticism modeling David. Choose the painful path to growth rather than the destructive path of trying to censure the criticism.

    I visited Kevin's site a few weeks ago and was moved to tears. I thought I understood the scope of abusive leadership in the church. Kevin, in a very good way, rubbed my face in it and helped me resolve to do more to combat it.

    1. Pastor Craig,

      (FTR, I know I don't have to put "pastor" in front of your name; however, there may be new readers who do not realize you are a pastor and for this post, it is especially important.)

      See . . . this is why your presence here is so valuable. Not that my words are so special -(and not that my blog is lacking hits - -btw, your post today is hilarious) - - but because you are one of "them", yet you are not one of "them".

      For a pastor to acknowledge abuse, to see it for what it is, call it what it is, to feel pain and sadness for those who have experienced it (what is with me today - I'm so emotional, dang tears), show empathy and pray for us- - that sets you apart. You are a pastor who gives some of us hope (yes, including me). Thank you, Craig.

    2. Craig Vick wrote: 'David was called a man after God's own heart. Nathan's "You are the man" was a crushing criticism. David's response is well worth study. I'd suggest that any who are considered leaders in the church respond to criticism modeling David. Choose the painful path to growth rather than the destructive path of trying to censure the criticism.'

      Yes! Well said.

  4. A Verse that reminds me so much of these abusive pastors is 3 John 9&10:

    "I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisifed with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church." (NIV)

    John had no problem speaking out against such a person. Good verses to bring to the attention of the "touch not my annointed" crowd.

    Keep up the good work, Julie Anne and Kevin!

  5. At the last "organized" church we went to, the preacher started talking about David and Bathsheba's encounter in great deatail - while there were children sitting in the service. Most of us had shocked and angry looks on our face, which caused the preacher to yell out that he had the right to preach in such detail because he was called by God to preach God's inspired word.

    We left shortly after that sermon, and the church folded not long after that.

    1. "Ick" was the first word that came to mind. :(

  6. Longtime lurker, first time commenter. Thank you, Julie Anne, for this blog. You are helping more people than you will ever know this side of eternity.

    Now as for the challenge, the passage I most often heard cited was 1 Chronicles 16:22 or Psalm 105:15 (same verse).

    More contextually, 1Samuel chapters 24 and 26, as well as 2Samuel 1, are the crux of the argument.

    1. RudeDude - Thanks for both reading and now commenting! Come out more often. Great pseudonym, but you aren't very rude :)

  7. “Do not touch my anointed ones;
    do my prophets no harm.”

    These refer to 'prophets' and that brings into question if you believe there are prophets among us today. The New Apostolic Reformation are the ones saying Apostles and Prophets have appeared in the last decade or so. The 'apostles' that I knew in the church I left were definitely not (by their actions) anointed to be an apostle as my Bible refers to them.

    And another lawsuit...

    1. I used to live right near League City. Interesting.

  8. http://www.wickedshepherds.com/

  9. Who's Robbing God???

    Let's just say that your pastor is making an average salary of $50,000 per year. Some make 2, 3, or 4 times that amount. If your pastor preaches 3 sermons per week, that is 156 sermons per year. If you divide 156 sermons, into the $50,000 salary, you will find that he is being paid an average of $320 per sermon. If his sermon averages 20 minutes like most pastors, he is making $16 per MINUTE!!! He is making more money in one minute than most of the hard working people that support him make in an entire hour on their job!!!
    And even at this ridiculous rate of pay some of these "men of god" will not even invest the time to study and prepare their own sermons, but will steal/read/plagiarize someone else's commentary, or go to a website like sermoncentral.com and get a sermon.

    What is worse than that is if someone discovers that the pastor IS plagiarizing, and deceiving his congregation about it, the person that calls the pastor to repentance is then villified as if he did something wrong.

    What can we do about it? Simple:

    A)Stop tithing - it is not once commanded under the new covenant to tithe. Especially to a pastor that is not feeding you, but is feeding off of you through tithes.

    B)Come out of the harlot religious system. Forsake not assembling yourself with other believers, but you don't have to be institutionalized like an inmate to do it.

    C)Don't be silent about abusive church leaders. Start a blog, link to someone else's blog on your Facebook, visit chatrooms and point people to websites like this one, or Apostacy Watch, Wicked Shepherds, Coming In The Clouds, etc. Wicked Shepherd has a spiritual abuse survey on thier website. Email it to every Christian you know. Together we can make a difference.

    1. If this is all you think a pastor does, then I feel for you as you are sadly misinformed.

  10. Kevin wrote: 'a) One example of anyone in the Bible that God punished for ridiculing or criticizing the behavior or statements of a minister. .'

    Kevin, would Elisha cursing in the name of the LORD the boys who were ridiculing him in 2 Kings 2:23-25 qualify for $1,000? Two she-bears came out of the woods and tore 42 of the boys to pieces!

    1. Monax,

      We may have a technicality here. "Prophet" vs. "Minister/Pastor."

    2. Well, the Prophet Elisha was indeed a minister of the LORD.

      In Kevin's YouTube challenge he promises a $1,000 dollars to anyone “if you can show me one example of anyone in the Bible that God punished for ridiculing or criticizing the behavior or statements of a minister or a pastor” [YouTube 2:48].

      So, technically, because Kevin employed the coordinating conjunction “or” I only need to find a singular example that fits the criteria of a party experiencing God’s punishment after ridiculing a minister of God. I have found this in 2 Kings 2:23-25. Although Elisha does not fall into the “pastor” category, he does qualify as “minister.”

    3. 56 years a Baptist, mostly SBCSeptember 5, 2012 at 8:23 AM


      I read Elisha as being a prophet and not a minister, that is, he preached but did not pastor in the since of being involved with people and meeting their needs other than to hear the word from God. But then, I could be wrong on that. I just do not recall him tending to people in the sense we typically ascribe to the idea of "to minister".

    4. Aside from what “minister” means in certain contemporary church cultures, What is the biblical meaning of ministry, of being a minister?

      I think Peter breaks it down for us nicely: “As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God” (1 Pet 4:10 NKJV). The verb “minister” here, diakoneo, means to “serve.” It is related to the noun diakonos, which means “servant”, “minister”, transliterally “deacon.” Peter employs the same verb, diakoneo, in 1 Peter 1:10-12 in reference to the OT prophets. “Of this salvation the prophets... prophesied of the grace that would come to you... ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit.” Note, also, that the Greek words for “grace”, charis in both passages are the same, a word directly related to the word for “gift”, charisma.

      Each elect one of us has received a gift and a ministry. We are stewards and servants called to minister our gifts to one another. Yes, the biblical idea of being a minister involves all the elect of God.

      Biblically speaking we mustn’t exclusively equate the role of “minister” to that of “pastor.” It is true that all pastors are ministers. But it is also true that all Spirit-filled believers are ministers too. The prophets of old are biblically designated as minsters as well.

  11. What about when Aaron and Miriam ridiculed Moses for marrying Zipporah? Moses was definitely meeting the counseling needs of the nation of Israel. In no way do I disagree with Kevin, but my church could definitely use $1,000! LoL


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