Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel to File Defamation Lawsuit Against Son and Blogger?

Not too long ago, I followed quite a few referral hits on my blog and came upon the Calvary Chapel News blog run by Alex Grenier.    Alex had been following my lawsuit story and shared my story on his blog.   Alex is the step-son of Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia in California.  He also mentioned in that article the possibility of a defamation lawsuit against him by his father and pastor, so of course that shocked and intrigued me.

I did a bit more searching to find out the back story. You can find Alex's personal story here.  Below are a couple of paragraphs describing Alex's story in a nutshell and the purpose of the Calvary Chapel News blog:

My name is Alex Grenier. I am the son of Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia. My brothers and I were physically abused by “Pastor Bob” for our entire time in his home. His board and elders, including Raul Ries (Calvary Chapel Golden Springs), Gary Ruff (Calvary Chapel Foothills) and David Rosales (Calvary Chapel Chino Valley) have ignored the allegations and the requests to have a face-to-face Matt.18 style meeting for Bob to answer his accusers and give his side of the story. Pastor Dave Rolph of Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills has agreed to mediate the meeting. Many requests have been made to Bob’s board, elders and staff…no response to date.

Bob is unrepentant and lying about his many abuses…both physically toward me and my brothers and my mother…and his spiritual abusiveness to many over the 30+ years he has been the pastor of Calvary Chapel Visalia. 

and

. . . . . . In August of 2009 my wife discovered a blog forum about people who had been “shown the door” by Bob/CCV…in this forum were accounts from people who had attended CCV who had been hurt by Bob and tossed aside. I read their stories, felt their pain…and I believed it was time to share my story. I began sharing and the blog exploded. More and more people began sharing their stories of Bob’s abuse and corruption. Many began contacting me privately. So many similarities and patterns of abuse. It truly makes me sick to realize Bob has gotten away with this stuff for over 30 years. Shame on Bob, shame on his board and elders. Shame on the Church

Alex's recent post indicates that attorneys representing Alex's parents, Pastor Bob and Gayle Grenier and Calvary Chapel Visalia, are in fact preparing to file a defamation lawsuit against Alex and four others who post on his blog.  Here we go again - another pastor is suing a blogger and those who dared to expose their experiences on a blog.

It was almost seven months ago I was first threatened by my former pastor with a lawsuit.  This threat was mentioned on a Google review.  I received the subpoena approximately two weeks later.  Of course Alex's situation is very close to my heart and it sure brings back all of those heightened feelings from that time.

Here is part of the notice from the attorneys:

“Our office represents Bob & Gayle Grenier and Calvary Chapel Visalia. The aforementioned parties intend to file a lawsuit in Tulare County Superior Court against individuals who have made defamatory statements against Bob Grenier and members of the Calvary Chapel Visalia Board of Directors.”

The letter specifically cites the following “individuals that have posted comments on the website CalvaryChapelNews.com as follows”:

1. Alex

2. NotAlone

3. Admin

4. Tina Jenkins

5. Edna Silva

Reading a bit of the Calvary Church Visalia situation, I have found there are similarities with my case, yet there are some distinct differences.

The obvious difference:  my former church was very small - maybe 100 members at the most.  Calvary Chapel Visalia has had around 1,000 regulars, but probably has considerably less attending now.

Some similarities:

Both churches have affiliations.  My former church was affiliated with Grace Brethren churches.  Calvary Chapel churches are connected with the Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel "fellowship of churches".  Both churches are independent, however, in that there is really no hierarchal structure that can discipline a pastor who is out of line.  The pastors in the other "sister" churches have their hands tied as to what they can do if there is a case of abuse or any sort of problem.

In both churches, there have been allegations of sexual abuse and spiritual abuse.  (Note:  the sex abuse I am referring to in my former church has to do with the former pastor not reporting a sex offender to authorities.  To my knowledge, no one has ever reported him to be a sex offender.) My former pastor's first job as pastor was at our former church.  Pastor Bob Grenier pastored a church briefly in Eugene, OR, but then went on to take the pastorate at Calvary Chapel Visalia.  Both pastors were inexperienced as pastors.  

Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia http://pastorbobgrenier.com/about-me/about-me.html

The picture of Pastor Bob Grenier and the biographical information below are taken from the Calvary Chapel Visalia church website.   Below is the extent of his personal information posted on the "About Me" page under the "Pastor Bob" tab.  

I was born in Winnipeg Canada. That is a city in the province of Manitoba, which is directly above our state of North Dakota.

Our family moved to Florida when I was in the 4th grade. We continued to live in Florida all the way through High School.

The Lord saved me on Feb 6th, 1973, and I entered full time ministry on Feb 12th, 1973, becoming part of the "Shiloh Ministry", which had grown out of Calvary Chapel in Southern California.

Gayle and I moved here to Visalia in the summer of 1978, and the Lord established Calvary Chapel Visalia. We are both deeply committed to "finishing our course well" See Acts 20, and are blessed beyond words to be serving Jesus Christ in this body of believers.

My personal vision for ministry is found in the book of Ephesians, chapter 4:11-16.

Please reread those dates that he was saved and went into ministry.  He was saved February 6, 1973 and entered full-time ministry six days later?  Is that a typo?  It's the same year 1973.  Six days after this dude was saved and he went into full-time ministry?  Who does that?!   What is going on here?  How can someone come off the streets after drugs/baggage and be fit for the pastorate?  That is pretty remarkable and I'm not suggesting that in a positive light.  Red flag warning!!

Scripture is pretty clear about issues like this.   Take a look at 1 Timothy 3 and especially verses 6 and 7.  I have underscored verses 6 and 7.

1It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

In the bio, you see his wife, Gayle, mentioned, but there is no mention of any children.  I've never seen a bio of a pastor not mention children and even possibly grandchildren.   Why would he leave out the names of his children?  Calvary Chapel is all about families.  Take a look at the website to see all the children's ministries.  Why would he fail to mention his own children   . . . .unless there was a problem???  Is this another red flag?  

I want to highlight this paragraph from Pastor Bob Grenier's bio:

Gayle and I moved here to Visalia in the summer of 1978, and the Lord established Calvary Chapel Visalia. We are both deeply committed to "finishing our course well" See Acts 20, and are blessed beyond words to be serving Jesus Christ in this body of believers.

Bob and Gayle Grenier are not young anymore.  They say they are committed to finishing their course well.  They are committed to finishing the course well by filing a lawsuit against their son and others who are sharing their opinions about what they deem to be abuse?  They are finishing well by cutting off family relationships?  Alex mentioned that his daughter hasn't seen her grandmother in years.  It is delusional thinking to file a lawsuit against a Believer, against scripture, and think you are finishing well.  Something is clearly wrong.  Who is paying for this lawsuit?  Is the church?  How would the congregants feel if their tithe money was used to support this lawsuit?  Here is more information on the payment of my expensive lawsuit.  

This no doubt is a challenging time for Alex and the others who will be named on the suit.  When you are being sued, it feels like life stops in some respects.  Finding an attorney is a challenging and time-consuming process.   You try to do normal tasks, but a dark cloud is over your head wondering all of the "what ifs" and "hows" and "whys".  I had a lot of people supporting me in my lawsuit.  I've told Alex and others on their blog that I will do whatever I can do to provide support and encouragement.  

I have more to share on this story later, but I wanted to alert my readers of this serious situation in which another pastor has apparently made the decision to go against scripture and sue not only Christians, but his own son.  

I would like to take the opportunity to issue a personal note to Pastor Bob Grenier.

Pastor Bob:

I don't know you, but please know my heart.  I care about people who are hurting.  Please consider my recent court case.  Take a look at my court documents.  Look at some of the media links on my right sidebar and be sure to read the comments.  Those links are only a fraction of the media/news/blogs that reported our story.  Look at the comments from strangers. Your case will be perceived very similarly to mine by the public - a pastor suing.  That doesn't look good.  Look at the amount of hits and comments:  

Young Turks Video - nearly 70,000 hits  

MSNBC.com article - nearly 700 comments 

FBCJax Watchdog article - thorough investigation 

Most of the major media sites don't list the number of hits, but you can see hundreds of comments.  My own blog received 16 and 17 thousand hits in a 3-day period.  The story went around the world which was evident in my personal e-mails.

This was overwhelmingly negative attention that my former pastor received due to his choice to sue me and four others.  One news report mentioned that he received hate mail.  This media attention undoubtedly brought more disruption to the pastor, his family, and the church.  Is this what you are looking forward to?  If you do a quick search on my pastor's name or the name of the church, the legal case is found on pages and pages on Google.  Do you want your church to have the reputation as the suing church and suing pastor?  Learn from my former pastor's experience.

Instead, why don't you look at the claims of people on the Calvary Chapel blog.  If there is some truth, make amends.  Get help with mediation.  This is the right thing to do.   Bob, finish your course well.

Julie Anne Smith

Beauty from Ashes after the Lawsuit

John 15:12-15 “This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.” (NKJV)

An hour or so I saw something show up on my Facebook newsfeed and I can't get it out of my mind.  It was a sweet comment from someone who attended my former church a full decade before our family arrived.  This person and I  connected solely because of the lawsuit.  I found her story to be so much like mine, even though she was there a full decade earlier. As we shared stories, I was shocked to discover that the same kinds of abuse had been going on for such a long period of time.   

Today, the comment on my Facebook newsfeed was addressed to another mutual friend and former church member - one who left more recently than our family.  The comment was sweet.  You could tell that relationships were being restored.  

One of the sad things about spiritual abuse is that many times you leave the church completely alone.  You question yourself, you blame yourself, you miss the relationships, you grieve the relationships.  It is a very sad and lonely time.  

Since the exposure of this spiritual abuse and because of the wide publicity of our case,  the secret is out about spiritual abuse at this church.  There is no need to fear anymore.  People are free to reconnect with others who left or were disposed of.  Now people are able to look back and question those events from the past with new eyes.   Perhaps what was told to them about certain people wasn't the truth after all.    I found that we were told untruths about people.  I have needed to erase from my mind anything told to me by current church members/pastor/elder.  I am glad to see people have reconnected, have apologized, and there has been restoration of relationships.  

I would like to encourage those who have left our former church to extend grace to others who may have left years before.  Some of these people have never gone back to church.  You are in a wonderful position to extend grace and love to people who were spiritually abused.  If you are avoiding someone based on something someone from the church has told you, there's a very good chance that you might hear a different story now.  Let's love, people!

Yes, this lawsuit was difficult and ugly, but look at what beauty is coming out of it!  This is lasting beauty.  








photo credit: Bruce McKay Yellow Snow Photography via photo pin cc

Polish-a-Shaft Pastor Signs Plea Deal for Sex with Minor

Remember the former "polish-a-shaft" pastor, Jack Schaap of 15,000-member mega-church Hammond First Baptist Church in Indiana I discussed here:  Too Crazy for Words?  Just in case you missed the video the first time around, I dare you to watch it.  Do you suppose anyone in the church could have imagined that this dude had some sort of sexual "issues"?  Just maybe?

  Well, he got his day in court.  Here's a snippet of the Chicago Tribune Article:

A former northwest Indiana pastor was charged in federal court today with taking a minor across state lines in and has signed a plea agreement, prosecutors announced.

Jack A. Schaap, of Crete, and Dyer, Ind., was charged in a criminal information in U.S. District Court in Hammond, Ind., according a news release from the district’s U.S. attorney’s office.

The FBI had confirmed last month that it was investigating whether Schaap, the former pastor of an Indiana megachurch, broke any laws during a relationship with a girl who was 17 last month that led to his ouster from First Baptist Church in Hammond.

Schaap, 54, admitted to adultery and "improper behavior" with the teenager, leading a board of deacons to fire him last month, a church spokesman said at the time.

* * * * *Update 9/19/12  Based on this article:  Pastor could get 10 years for sex across state lines charge:  

The charge comes with a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years, which federal attorneys say they will recommend.

Jack Schaap is married to Cynthia Hyles, the daughter of First Baptist's founder, Jack Hyles.   If you would like to dig deeper into the church's history of sex scandals, blogger Bruce Gerenscer has written a very informative article, The Legacy of Jack Hyles.  Bruce did a great job with this article and the facts seem to match up with the sources I've read and it's all in one place.  There is a long history of sexual coverup at that church.  

If you'd like to learn more, here is a fairly recent TEDx video of Linda Murphrey, daughter of Jack Hyles, called, "From Cult to Courage".  It is a a very personal and disturbing testimony of Linda discussing her life as the daughter of Jack Hyles:  what it was like to be part of her father's mega-church, the spiritual abuse, sexual secrets in the family and church committed by her father and brother, including the massive cover-ups in the church.  







Let's hope and pray that the church in Hammond will clean up from the top down so that the members may heal and grow.  

Single Women in the Church: Valued or Not?

Earlier when I posted about Patriarchal Movement in churches, I received an e-mail from Jennifer who shared her personal story with me.   I have learned so much from my readers.  When Jennifer shared her story with me, I was saddened and shocked that we, the church, have failed Jennifer and women like her.

What can we do to make single women feel needed and wanted in church?  Are singles valued as much as married women?  Does God value single women less than married women?  Of course not.  Yet it seems some churches don't quite know what to do with them.  

A while back, I read about the plight of single women who attend SGM churches.  At the SGMsurvivor.com site, I read of single women being told they should be serving families within the church in their spare time - as if their time wasn't their own.  Some singles were taken advantage of because they didn't have "family obligations".  They were guilted into babysitting (without pay)  church leaders' children, for helping new moms when they brought their baby home.  Is this reciprocated when single are sick or need help in any way?   

I asked Jennifer if I could share her story here and she agreed.  Jennifer is not alone, I am certain of that.   Reading Jennifer's story has made me much more sensitive to the plight of single women in the church.  I hope it does for you, too.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

Jennifer's Story

Hi, I have subscribed to your blog via email for a couple of months now.  I originally subscribed because I wanted to be sure I found out the outcome of your trial, but I have continued reading because I think this is a huge issue in the church and am encouraged to see how you and your commenters handle the issue.  

I wanted to leave this as a comment on your blog, but I don't know that it goes as far as abuse.  The Patriarchal Movement affects single women as much as it does married.  I have experienced this first hand and rather than divert the topic of your blog, I thought I would just email you my story and maybe you could address it later, if you think it is fitting.

I am a single, 38-year-old woman.  I no longer attend church regularly because I have found I have no place there.  Due to health issues, I realized long ago that I would not be able to have children.  Without my biological clock ticking in the background, I found I did not have the urgency that most of my friends did to get married.  

In my church, both young men and young women of college age were encouraged to build their spiritual gifts.  We were trained in leadership and served in leadership roles in our "college and career" group.  A number of my friends got married over the course of a year or two.  They were told they had to leave our group and start attending the young marrieds group.  It was quite the change.  All of the women found they no longer had a place to serve in the church as their role was to serve in their families.  Luckily most made the transition well.  My closest friends', who had decided they would not be having children, did not do so well.  For them, the change in attitude was more apparent.  They also no longer attend church regularly.

It is jarring to live in a world where we as women are required to have careers to support ourselves and our families and go to churches that expect us to be good, little women.  We have to cultivate our skills, intellect and leadership roles in the real world and then pretend to be spineless and ignorant in church.  I am not saying the Bible is antiquated, but I am saying the church's view of women is.  I am the head of my household.  The church doesn't really know how to reconcile that.  Because I don't really have a desire to just be married, I must be living apart from God.  Don't get me wrong, I would love to find a guy, fall in love and get married.  But I am not going to say "I do" for the rest of my life to whatever guy comes along.  I am attractive and fun to be around; I am also sick of hearing people ask me, "Why have you never been married?"  I am pretty sure what they mean is, "What makes you so defective, that no man has wanted you."  No one ever considers the fact that men have wanted me, but I didn't want to settle.  I was taught to have discernment, but am now being punished for that discernment by being ostracized by the church.  

I can go to church, but I am forced into bible studies for singles.  Because if I am not married, I need to be looking for a marriage or else be treated as a possible home-wrecker.  You can dress up those bible studies any way you want to but it doesn't really matter.  Looking for a marriage comes first, seeking the truth of the word comes second, if at all.  But until I am married, I will not be allowed to attend a real bible study.  Until I get married, I will never fully be accepted into the flock.  

Even worse, if I am accepted as a whole person unto myself, I risk losing that identity as soon as I do get married.  There are some churches that do accept me for who I am.  Those places are even scarier, because I simply have to look at how the married women are treated.  I can have respect and acceptance, but only if I remain single.

This is a really long email and I am not sure if I am even making myself clear.  I guess the crux of it is this:  the role of women in the church is messed up.  As long as churches treat married women and single women differently, then there is a problem.  And it seems to me that whenever I show up in church, I become a magnifier for that problem. The best thing for me is to be ignored.  The worst is to be treated as a project because then people look at me like I need to be fixed or married off.  I would just like to find a church that loves me for where God has led me.  I don't really think that is too much to ask, and in theory everyone agrees.  But in practice...

I hope that makes sense.  I am not the only one.  There is a huge population of women that are pretty much ignored by the church.  I am not against homeschooling, but I do know that I become very wary the minute I realize that I am in a church where the majority of people attending are homeschooling families.  It is like a huge, flashing danger sign to me.  I need to retreat immediately because I do not belong there.  And I think that it is kind of sad for any Christian to feel like they don't belong in church.

Thank you for your blog.  I realize that my issues are not the ones you and your commenters are dealing with, but it is a safe place for me and I appreciate that.

Much love,

Jennifer





 photo credit: fensterbme via photo pin cc

Beware of the Lone Pastor

One glaring red flag we missed in our abusive church situation was the fact that our pastor seemed to have no real relationships with pastors in the local area.  He knew pastors, but I do not recall him saying he respected any of them.  How could a pastor in his first pastorate have no need for accountability or connection with other pastors?  

Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 1 Timothy 3:7

Our former pastor told us that other local pastors did not evangelize properly, did not have the right gospel message, allowed youth groups, did not do authoritative preaching, etc.  No pastor measured up and so he was basically alone in his superior ways.  He did, however, respect pastors at Grace Community Church (John MacArthur's church), but these were not men he rubbed shoulders with locally, so they could not provide input into his life or challenge him or be available to him.  

Our former pastor was affiliated with the larger Grace Brethren assemblies, but he refused to have anything to do with those pastors, having a fall-out some 4 years ago while we were there.  I remember how he denigrated those pastors from the pulpit.  It wasn't pretty.  Hmm, denigrating pastors from the pulpit?  

Yes, another red flag.

Take a look at your pastor's life.  Ask your pastor who holds him accountable, who he calls for guidance, if he has mentors who speak into his life, etc.  Anyone who sets himself up in an authority position over people who does not allow someone to speak into his life is treading in dangerous territory.  Cultists listen to no one.  They have no need for anyone speaking into their life because they are above everyone.  Beware of lone pastors who have no need for real accountability.  I've mentioned this before, but when we met with the elders, we asked them if they ever had a need to bring any issue to the pastor's attention in the prior 10 years.  Both replied "no" - no such issue ever came up.  In other words, they said he had no anger issue, no personality issue, etc, absolutely nothing that they could find that they could bring correction to their pastor.   That is also another red flag.  No one is perfect.

"Following the biblical model, elders must not wield the authority given to them in a heavy-handed way. They must not use manipulative tactics, play power games, or be arrogant and aloof. They must never think that they are unanswerable to their fellow brethren or to God. Elders must not be authoritarian, which is incompatible with humble servanthood. When we consider Paul's example and that of our Lord's, we must agree that biblical elders do not dictate; they direct. True elders do not command the consciences of their brethren, but appeal to their brethren to faithfully follow God's Word.... They guard the community's liberty and freedom in Christ so that the saints are encouraged to develop their gifts, to mature, and to serve one another. "  Alexander Strauch, Biblical Eldership

We've read other stories here of lone pastors.   My personal experience is certainly not the only one (Personal Story of Spiritual Abuse by Eric Starkey and Can Spiritual Abuse Destroy a Marriage? Paul's Story).  

Here are a few notes taken from  Mark of a Cult that I found helpful:

Cults indoctrinate their members that they alone are right. The top leader who is portrayed as perfect and therefore beyond reproach is the bearer of God's truth. 

Elitism is the main reason why cults are very divisive among Christians. Anyone outside the group is suspect. Even one's own family is no longer to be trusted. The cult leader's word is more important than anyone else's.

How is your church controlled? What sort of control is exercised on ordinary members? Are they allowed to disagree?  1 Peter 5: 2-5; 2 Corinthians 7:2

How is your church defined?  Does it have a fringe?  Is there a sense in which everyone is clearly in or out?  How exclusive/elitist is it?  James 2:1-7

How is your church advertised?  Is there a note of triumphalism? A note of comparing selves with others? An element of competitiveness?

How does your church regard/ is your church regarded by other churches? Does your church work together with other churches, or is it so exclusive that it regards all others as inferior? Is its attitude to other churches one of co-operation or confrontation?

How easily is your church left?  Can a person leave the church without bringing down upon themselves the criticism and abuse that accompanies those leaving the cults?  Is your church content that a person should join another church? 

Julie Anne's Experience at High School Summer Camp

This is a brief diversion, but something I've been wanting to share for a while.  You may remember the last week of July when we found out we won the court case, I was at a high school summer camp serving as a counselor.  I wanted to share a little bit about that remarkable experience.  

Field where the teens played soccer, volleyball, and held a lot of the fun outside activities.

Last spring,  I was asked to be a a high school counselor at a Christian summer camp.   It sounded daunting until my friend reminded me that I volunteer every day at our local high school helping with the choir (as accompanist and "choir mom").   For some reason that thought slipped my mind and suddenly the idea of being a camp counselor sounded like something that might be kind of fun.

High school camp meant one week away from my family (for both me and my daughter who would also be there as a camper).  My husband and rest of the family felt they were up to the task in my absence.  

Most of the counselors arrived Sunday and we spent the day meeting the counselors and staff, learning rules, schedules, discipline issues, first aid issues, and getting acquainted with logistics.   The campers arrived around 6 pm.

I was paired with a young college student who was an absolute delight.  This was her first time at this particular camp, so we both were learning together as counselors.  There were eight young ladies in our cabin.  Fortunately, some of the campers in our cabin had been camp leaders at prior camps and they knew the ropes, so we encouraged them to help us out as newbies and they loved teaching us.

Typical Daily Schedule

The days were quite full and scheduled.  Every morning was a counselor meeting in which we discussed the events of the day, recapped any special issues from the previous day, had a devotion time and sharing time.  Chapel was held twice a day,  including a time of praise and worship.  After each chapel, we spent 30-45 minutes discussing what we learned during chapel time.  This was a great time together as a group.  We were able to take the lessons learned from chapel and tried to make them applicable in everyday life.

I observed the experienced counselors a lot.  They spent a large part of their time getting to know the campers, learning their names (there were over 120 kids), getting to know a little something about them so the next time they saw them, they could go a little further with that conversation.  It was a challenge to learn so many names/faces, but as we invested the time, the rewards were forthcoming.  The kids delved deeper into conversation as we played games or as we worked together for kitchen duty, etc.

The camp directors encouraged the counselors to make a big effort to have one-on-one time with each of their campers to see where they were spiritually, emotionally and try to encourage them.  This was stressed very strongly at each counselor meeting in the morning.  And after spending a week very close and personal with some amazing high schoolers, I now get the importance of this special meeting.

How often do you ask how someone is doing and really mean it and wait for a response?  How often do you avail yourself of some time to sit and talk with someone about their joys and trials?  How often do you boldly ask a person how their relationship is with Christ?  Or if they have any spiritual questions?  Or do they have someone in their life as a mentor?  That's not something that I normally do.  Wow - it was powerful.  

Eventually we started having one-on-one meetings with the campers.  After the initial ice breaker questions, we went deeper.  The range of topic conversations was wide.  Some things were very difficult for my ears to hear and I wondered how they could be so bold to share such intimate information with me, someone they met just that week.  There is something really unique about the camp setting.   Because of the close quarters and living with each other 24/7, the level of conversation probably progressed more easily than in normal life. 

Not all of these kids were church-going kids, so there were many negative influences and experiences represented:  drugs, sex, boyfriend/girlfriend relationships, sexting, troubled parental marriages, eating disorders, issues with family members, cutting, etc.  It did not take much effort for the campers to open up, whether it was one-on-one, or in a group setting, they wanted to talk.  Each one really wanted to talk.  That surprised me.  Sometimes we tend to imagine teens with facades of having it all together and not wanting or needing adults in their lives.  That simply is not true.  We need to remove that idea and push ourselves to be bold in initiating conversations with teens.

The bottom line is teenagers, maybe more than any other time, need adults in their lives.  It occurred to me as some young ladies shared their very personal stories with me that they might not have the opportunity to get to this level of intimacy with an adult in their normal busy life.  What was I going to do with this information and how could I help them?   What tools could I give them?  How could I show them Christ?  How could I show them what God thinks about them?  Wow, what a privilege.  This was the privilege all camp counselors were given.  It's a privilege and a gift because it sure stretched me and made me more sensitive and caring and wanting to get closer to these precious souls.

Another valuable lesson it taught me was that I am not doing this level of communication nearly enough with my own children.  We get so busy with our kids and the day-to-day activities/sports/music that it's easy to forget those personal questions.

The last evening, we sat around a campfire and got to hear from campers who were graduating seniors and would not be able to come back the next year.  Some had been going to camp for years and for others, it was their first time.  The powerful testimonies of the things that God had done at camp were wonderful.  Some said that camp truly made a difference in their life throughout the year - especially as they ran into other familiar campers and counselors at schools, in town, etc.  Many of these campers made decisions for Christ at camp.  Another interesting tidbit I found out - many of the counselors and staff had experience as campers and some of them, too, came to know Christ at camp through the amazing power of relationships and people investing in their lives.

All wasn't so deep and spiritual, however.  There was an incredible amount of fun.  Here is a picture of yours truly.  I was unaware when I went to volunteer, that this round, the counselor (ahem, me) would be volunteering to be completely covered with two cans of shaving cream. My cabin girls had fun plastering me with the white foam and aside from it being quite :::touchy::::, it was actually a great bonding time with my girls.  I will have you know that our team won :)  And no, I'm not the least bit competitive.

After having this experience,  I will definitely make the effort to go to camp again.  Making relationships with teens when I play the piano and help in choir at the local high school is great, but in the public school setting, there's not much opportunity to discuss topics things spiritually.  But much can be accomplished at a Christian camp for a solid week.

I thought that the camp experience would be all about the camper.  It's not.  It changed me, it stretched me, it encouraged me, and it make me resolved to make much more effort to invest in the lives of precious young teens.  It made me realize that asking one probing tough question might be the key to unlocking secrets in a teen's life that could lead to emotional, physical or spiritual destruction.  What a privilege and a gift this was to me.  I'm completely sold.    I highly encourage you to get involved in the lives of teens and if you have the opportunity to go to camp, please do.  I am sure that you will be so blessed and see what a joy it is to be involved in the lives of our precious teens.

Mike Pearl and Women in the Church

In the last post, I mentioned Mike Pearl of No Greater Joy Ministries.  Mike and Debi Pearl are quite popular in the homeschool movement.  Years ago, they published a book called "To Train up a Child".  They practically gave it away, the price was so low.  It was actually a pretty smart marketing tool because people connected with the ideas in the book,  bought loads of books and gave them to their friends and family members.  There are some decent nuggets of truth.  After people connected with the book, they wanted more and so they signed up for the free newsletter and then people were hooked.

The Pearls speak all over the country, give presentations on parenting, marriage, proper roles of husband/wife, etc.  I think my husband and I have gone to at least two of their workshops.  They espouse Patriarchal teaching, homeschooling, courtship, spanking with a 1/4-inch plastic plumbing line.  If I remember correctly, their children who married did not get a marriage license - as it was not necessary.  They grow their own gardens, get into healthy eating, etc.  I'm pretty sure they are King James only people.

Ok, I fess up.  I've been sucked in this movement for many years.  I even went along with some of it.   Now I'm in the process of trying to evaluate everything that I have learned over the years and test it up against scripture.  

Does Mike Pearl's teaching on women measure up to scripture?  Would marriages benefit from following this teaching?   This video is just over 7 minutes long.

A reader/friend sent me this regarding yesterday's post with Wade Burleson's sermon on Sarah in Hebrews 11:11.  I thought it was fantastic and had to share it:

Listening to the sermon, I remembered how Abraham had passed Sarah off as his sister and decided to "help" the Lord by having a child with Hagar, who bore Ishmael. (Neither actions were based on "faith".)

Next I thought of Hannah in 1 Samuel 1.   So I decided to look that portion of scripture up to see what was there. The whole chapter is interesting, but I'll only paste in a few verses to illustrate:

²¹ Then the man Elkanah went up with all his household to offer to the Lordthe yearly sacrifice and pay his vow. ²² But Hannah did not go up, for she said to her husband, “I will not go up until the child is weaned; then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord and stay there forever.”

²³ Elkanah her husband said to her, “Do what seems best ^{[Literallly "in your eyes"]}to you. Remain until you have weaned him; only may the Lord confirm His word.” So the woman remained and nursed her son until she weaned him."

I had read that chapter so many times and I never 'saw' this before. But she had freedom to make her own decision. About "going up" for the yearly sacrifice. Here was another example. 

This is so good!  Thank you for the e-mail, friend!