Thursday, August 9, 2012

Too Crazy for Words

Ok, Monax's "interesting" comment today reminded me of this video I saw earlier this week that about sent me through the roof.

This may be old news for some, but just in case. . . . 

Jack Schaap, former pastor of mega-church First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana was recently fired for "committing a sin".   Some articles say he admitted to having "an affair" with a 16-yr old (now 17 yrs old).  I would normally label it as rape because she is a minor, but evidently the age of consent is 16 yrs old in Indiana.  I've read reports that the FBI might be involved because of crossing state lines.

This church is large - with over 400 on staff and the church seats 15,000.   There are lots of stories on the internet on this guy.  Here are a couple:



Hammond megachurch pastor fired amid investigation




Ok, so he got caught.  Good.  But were there warning signs that the people in his church ignored?  Let's see.  This is a video from a youth conference in 2010.    This is what sent me through the roof after about just 8 seconds of the video - yes, a mere 8 seconds.  Please, tell me I'm not the only one whose hair raised on end.  This is a short video - slightly over 2 minutes long.   





Why do kids need to know how to polish a shaft?  Can you imagine what thoughts were going on in their head as they saw this man demonstrate this . . this . . polishing of the shaft?    If you are tracking with me on this, then you can be sure teens were tracking, too.  I wonder what his next teaching was?  Who wants to fill in the blank?   This "pastor", former leader of a mega-church, was highly respected - and supposed to care for souls??  Ick.

I have more questions.  Why are those dudes behind the pastor wearing white coats?  They look like they are dressed up as doctors.  Why do they sit there and do nothing?  Are they okay with this action/behavior?  

Yea, I have a hunch there were signs that were missed long before this "affair" with the 16-yr old.  You can be sure.  

Thank you, David, for allowing me to vent.  I obviously hadn't gotten over it when I first heard/saw about it.  Ya'll help me so much around here  :)



30 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. OM - Yes, I did a little research on this guy, too. Did you see the recent video put out by TEDx - an interview by Linda Murphrey - Hyles' daughter? She exposed her father's cult. She is the only one of 4 siblings who has left the cult. I tried to find it on youtube, but read on a message board that it was taken down and won't be put back for a few weeks. It is excellent. I am so glad she is speaking out against it.

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    2. The odd thing is the pastor who was fired was also Hyles' son-in-law. Married 30 years.

      Hyles had his own share of scandalous undercurrent during his time in the pulpit.

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    3. I wonder why the video was taken down. It was very interesting to listen to.

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  2. The guys behind him look like they might be afraid to stand up...

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  3. you're most welcome jULIE aNNE

    i had a riot writing it

    your husband/wife hypothetical inspired me to try my hand at a pastor/wife scenario

    . .

    you know, i was wondering how those ‘trusted men’ got their white jackets, do they own them? do they have to earn them? are they like club jackets? are they church serving jackets? are these elders waiting upon the congregation later, perhaps serving a fancy meal in the dinning hall? are they like choir robes that have to be hung back up in the church closet after service? and what other sort of robes and costumes might be hanging up in their church closet? maybe since they all have the same shirts and ties mean they get to take their uniforms home.

    goodness I hate when preachers shout at me! and yes, troll tamer, i was watching the men in the background too, to see if they weren't possibly in some sort of trance. the old man blinked and wrinkled his brow and toward the end had a few ants in his pants he shook. the young man looks off to his right in the pews—maybe to his dear wife, and at one point puts his hand over his mouth for a split second, but then probably on realizing this wasn’t a good symbolic posture shifted ever so slightly to a modified thinker look. i’m not sure he understood what the preacher was going on about. i only half heard his words, he seemed like a man possessed. i mean it might very well have a been a demon talking through him. these things do happen

    craziness!

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  4. http://paulspassingthoughts.com/2012/08/06/who-did-jack-hyles-own/

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  5. I'm sorry, I watched the movie a couple of days ago and it now shows up as private. It is a must see but made me very sad.
    I went to his pastors school three years in a row back in the mid 70s. What I received from him was that a man could be a man and Christian at the same time. He appeared to be a dedicated man that loved the Lord and to see it was only an act, it breaks my heart.
    I looked at what I thought were godly, successful men as my inspiration and finally at the age of 69, I am seeing that only the Lord is to be my example to follow. It takes some a long time to get smart.

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    1. Excerpts from Linda Hyles-Murphrey's April 5, 2012 video--a first person testimony:

      ‎"They didn't go on vacation without asking my Dad permission, and if he said to drink the Kool-Aid...I'm not kidding...They would've."

      ‎"My Dad lived a double life. One of righteous family man and dynamic speaker in the public eye, but one of sordid sexual secrets privately. Secrets only my siblings, my mother, and me knew. He hated my Mom, hated her. treated her terribly, abused her. And...even turned her own children against our mother. We hated her. He told us she was crazy. To make him happy we'd hate her too. Our home was so full of turmoil, stress, strife."

      ‎"He had affairs. He had a mistress for many years, the wife of a Sunday School teacher. Built her family a beautiful home - right around the corner from our house - you could see their family from our back door. It was craziness - living one way, preaching another."

      ‎"My brother, my older brother, he became another version of my father. He took a....He pastored a church in Texas...was found to be having affairs with 14 different women...divorced that current wife, married one of the 14...My father tried desperately to cover it up...moved him to a another church, where he was found to have 17...affairs..with different women. He just recreated what my he had seen my Dad live...And my Dad did nothing but cover it up."

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    2. It is a very compelling interview. I'll have to post it when I see it up again. Thank God she is speaking out against cults and spiritual abuse. She has a powerful voice.

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    3. is this the Linda Murphrey promoting NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) techniques?

      Master NLP Practitioner

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    4. Yes, I'm pretty sure, David - on another site, it had similar info, including info that she also participated in a Tedx interview. She is a motivational coach/speaker, too.

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  6. Beloved in RecoveryAugust 9, 2012 at 6:55 PM

    I'm just speechless ...

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  7. Just getting caught-up. Oh my goodness--a youth conference??!!!

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    1. Yes, JLM, I refer you back to the title: Too Crazy for Words. It is just insane!

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  8. Julie Anne,

    In regard to Hyles, read pages 127 thru 129 of my book. Also, in regard to what else you have posted, yes, protocol is to begin to get in-between you and your wife/husband if you have been deemed a thinker. In one case that I was involved in that was in its beginning stages, my first concern was, wife , wife, wife, wife. "They are going to try to drive a wedge between you and you wife. Has the Pastor's wife invited her out to lunch yet?"

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  9. I know those men sitting behind him are just as caught up in this as everyone else but i kept waiting for one of them to leap up and stop him.

    And if the young woman was in his church, its still clergy sexual abuse, no matter what the age of consent. Pastors don't have affairs with church attenders or members. Because of the power, it is abuse.

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    1. You're absolutely right. Just like teachers and employers do not have sex with their students/insubordinates. You simply do not cross that line period.

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  10. Where is it written that gatherings of believers are to be dominated by one individual called a pastor? Where do I apply for this position where nobody is allowed to contest my opinions, my interpretations of Scripture, my pronouncements, or my way of ordering other people’s lives? How do I become the one person in a gathering of believers who is the center of attention, who is looked up to by men as a father figure, and is adored by women as though I were a husband substitute? How do I attain this office where my trustworthiness is simply assumed until I am caught molesting children or taking advantage of women to whom I am not married—only to have the whole thing minimized and covered up? Seriously, though, is it possible that a large part of the problem of spiritual abuse has to do with the fact that, the way we tend to do church, one person, called a pastor, is permitted and even encouraged to dominate the life of the congregation? Is it surprising that the position of pastor, as presently practiced, is so often filled by people who are narcissistic, even sociopathic. Even if a pastor starts out in humility, who has the strength of character to avoid the corruption of unquestioned power over the lives, consciences, minds and very souls of their fellow humans? And finally, if the people we call pastors ought not to have the unquestioned deference we tend to afford them, how ought Christian fellowship to be ordered?

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    1. great questions, Gary!

      Thomas Pynchon: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.

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  11. There is an expression in the zeitgeist that goes, "I just threw up in my mouth a little." I hate to be cliche, but while watching this video, I threw up in my mouth a little. I couldn't finish watching it.

    I wouldn't have believed that something like this could be presented to an audience of adults, much less young and impressionable people.

    It is disturbing, sickening, and incredible that this went on while those on the stage with him gave their silent consent.

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    1. I know, Jess, it affected me that way, too. I would love to get a copy of the teachings that were presented at the conference. I wouldn't doubt that the next one would have to do with staying pure before marriage. On my recent Google search, this church "empire" has some long-time historic issues with sex cover-ups and abuse. It started long before this guy.

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    2. Jess: It is disturbing, sickening, and incredible that this went on while those on the stage with him gave their silent consent.

      I'm certain if they spoke up they'd not only lose their jackets and places on the stage... being that they're so plugged in they'd probably lose ministry jobs, maybe family members, their blessed life as they know it. These places crush you! These 'trusted men' are likely paralyzed robots of flesh. Appears to be a house of bondage.

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  12. Oh. My. Gosh! I had to stop at 43 seconds. Unbelievable! If I were sitting in that congregation I might have been thinking, did he just do that?!

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  13. It's not just that they are all wearing white jackets. Everything they are wearing is same from head to toe including whatever is in the front pocket. I wonder if they all have a shaft as well.

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    1. David - You did not just say that! So are you suggesting that these guys dressed in white, instead of being back-up singers, could possibly be back-up shaft polishers?

      Oh, that is not a nice visual AT ALL.

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    2. What a lovely way to start the weekend with such a lovely thought. Hahaha.

      This isn't a complete video. Who knows what followed the pastor's demonstration. The guy on the far left has this "do I really have to do this" look.

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  14. I have more questions. Why are those dudes behind the pastor wearing white coats? They look like they are dressed up as doctors. Why do they sit there and do nothing? Are they okay with this action/behavior?

    Don't you remember Flip Wilson's "Reverend Leroy's Church of What's Happenin' Now" skit?

    They're the Deacons. Hand-picked by The Reverend. They dress just like The Reverend. (The Reverend wears a white suit, the Deacons wear identical white suits. The Reverend shaves his head to show How Humble he is, the Deacons shave their heads.) They sit just behind The Reverend as a cheering section of personal Yes-Men.

    Headless Unicorn Guy

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