Friday, July 13, 2012
33 comments:
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interesting. .
ReplyDeleteDespite the lack of a ruling, I'm glad today is done. Have a restful evening, Julie Anne.
ReplyDeleteWill continue to pray!
ReplyDeleteTime for all of us to pray because "our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:11-13
ReplyDeleteAs you said earlier, Julie Anne, this is not your battle. It's the Lord's. Prayer is the ammo needed for the Lord to reign victorious in this battle. I will certainly continue to pray as we wait.
Thank you, Susan.
DeleteI saw the news today and my jaw hit the floor. I saw a video of him and although the image was a little blurry and the tv was on mute I knew who he was right away, Pastor Chuck. I used to attend his church 8 years ago when I was a young 18 years old. This pastor has left an everlasting mark on my life. I did not feel good coming to this chuch. It was very cult-ish, judgemental and I never saw it as "abusive" or labeled as such until now. Needless to say I don't go there anymore. I wouldn't reccommend anyone going there and I am so glad that it isn't just me that got this tone or felt this way after attending this church.
ReplyDeleteYou are certainly not the first who heard the story in the news and came to tell me of their experience. It's been going on far too long.
Deletehttp://www.kctv5.com/story/19019389/beaverton-church-sues
ReplyDeleteI agree. If he wins this case, freedom of speech is threatened. God Help Us! Abusive pastors have pretty much a free reign now. Do they get to continue being abusive AND keep us from talking about it?????
Praying for you Julie Anne, and all of us who have been spiritually abused.
Julie Anne
ReplyDeleteI am glad the judge is taking time to read the briefs and documents, and hopefully review the law involved. It is not a common type of case for a judge to handle, so it speaks well of him to not make a ruling on the spot. I find I am more likely to dislike the way the judge rules, even when my side is the victor, than when the judge takes a few days to study the evidence and the briefs before making a decision. There is an old saying: Act in haste and you will repent at leisure (meaning later).
An Attorney, I suspect (no pun intended) the general public, with no exposure to the workings inside a courtroom, has the impression that all trials/hearings go on like what they see on TV; that a verdict is handed down the day of the trial. I'm curious as to how often that happens in reality. I expect not very often. What has been your experience with how often a ruling is given the same day?
DeleteFirst, this was a hearing on a dispositive motion (that is a motion that, if granted, would end the litigation). So the judge is being judicious in taking this under advisement and carefully reading and rereading the submitted papers (briefs, motions, complaints and answers to complaints). The judge will likely read some of the cases referenced in the papers and will likely read the statutes, possibly more than once.
DeleteIn general, when there is a trial, the evidence phase consumes most of the time (and jury selection a good amount as well!). After the evidence is complete, usually there are closing arguments, the purpose of which is to show how the evidence presented fits the cause of the side making that argument. Then the judge or jury (not all trials have a jury) will usually retire and consider the case and making a ruling. That ruling will then be turned into a order to be signed by the judge. In many jurisdictions and cases, the order is drafted by the winning side and the losing side has the opportunity to review and suggest changes. Of course, one hopes that the judge will review the written order and make changes if necessary prior to signing it.
I agree, An Attorney.
ReplyDeleteOpen Letter to Charles (Chuck) O'Neil/Beaverton Grace Bible Church:
ReplyDeleteDear Chuck,
You and your church are pathetic.. Way to spread the Good News of Christ and his Church !! I read your defense argument relating to the Defamation Lawsuit you've filed against Julie Anne Smith (whom I have never met), on your church website. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.. Please ask yourselves this question:
What would Jesus do?
You’ve made the Angels cry in heaven.. And Satan is laughing like a hyena, preparing a special room in hell for you and anyone supporting your actions… Again, shame on you !!
Please do the right thing, and get out of the ministry business.. You are only harming the true Christian Community who are genuinely trying to shine their lights for something Good and Righteous…
~David Schrom
video report: http://www.katu.com/news/local/Church-defamation-suit-Beaverton-Grace-Bible-Church-Julie-Anne-Smith-Chuck-Oneal-162434536.html?tab=video&c=y
ReplyDeleteIt is so sad when churches behave badly. Always under the direction of controlling, power-hungry ministers & leaders. They twist and warp Biblical scriptures for their own selfish motives, and spin malicious, spider-web schemes to remain in control..
ReplyDeleteI am so glad Julie Anne has created this blog/website.. This is the healthiest and most pure attempt I have ever seen, to right the wrongs committed by misled and evil Christian organizations...
I think Julie needs to take a lie detector test,To see if she is telling the truth.I think she is doing this out retailation
ReplyDeleteI agree!!!
DeleteMister Snuffleupagus,
DeleteJulie Anne Smith is not lying. And I'll tell you my reasoning from an insurance investigative background..
People who lie, deceive, make up stories, or even embellish the truth, do not continue and perpetuate their lies by creating public forums and website blogs which could only serve to cast light on the actual truth.. Liars lie, but they do NOT wish for their stories to have such a broad audience. Because the more their lies are heard by more than a few people, the greater the risk is taken that their untruths will be discovered...
No.. Julie Anne is no liar... She was caught up in a church with leaders that behaved in a loathsome and repugnant manner.. And these same leaders instructed the sheepish congregants to ostracize her and her family after years of friendship and fellowship...
Shame on them....
mister snuffleupagus: I award you the best commenter name on the blog! Love it!
DeleteAs for a lie detector test: bring it on!
My Dear Mr. Snuff,
DeleteFrom what you wrote it would appear that your Bible must have been caught in the rain and the ink surrounding Genesis 50:20 ran and smeared making it unreadable.
Joseph, upon meeting his brothers after they had sold him into slavery, and having seen the hand of the Lord work through this adversity said:
“As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.” (Genesis 50:20)
If Julie Anne meant this for evil (which I for one, do not believe for a moment), and your church and pastor are serving God as they should be and walking uprightly, then BGBC has absolutely nothing to fear because God’s purposes will NOT be thwarted.
I for one will spend eternity thanking the Lord that I will not stand judged by a lie detector, but will be cloaked in the alien righteousness imputed to me by Jesus Christ, that I in no way deserve or can earn.
Put away the electronic equipment, and the completely unbiblical lawsuits ..…someone is going to get hurt there.
These Beaverton Grace trolls are so pathetic.
DeleteSnuffy, I was going to suggest that Chuck also take a lie detector test, but there would be no point. We already know he's doing this out of retaliation.
I've been missing Old Mom and the way she gets right to the point with the most excellent words.
DeleteShe wrote what I have been thinking but couldn't articulate nearly as well. It seems that the people from BGBC who have commented here are obsessed with silencing Julie Anne and her blog, but why? If what she says is false, why do they care? People can read the blog or not and form their own opinions, and it doesn't affect what happens inside BGBC at all. If what she says is true, why do they care more about silencing her than dealing with the issue?
It's so interesting that they fear the discussion. What's to fear if one is on the side of right?
Let's get back to Julie Anne's motives. Let's say that she is running this blog out of spite, which I don't believe, but for argument's sake, let's say she is. What about the blog's content, that people have been hurt by BGBC and the hyper-control of its leader? Is she right or wrong? Have any of you heard of even one person who left BGBC for a reason other than moving out of the area who was not labeled a goat? One?
Ah, but it's easier to question her motives. It keeps those hard questions at bay.
Yes, Mr. Snuffleupagus has chosen one of the best commenter names on the blog. Brings back happy memories of Big Bird and Sesame Street and "the Count", and "Cookie Monster" nom, nom...
DeleteWonder if Snuffy would like a plate of your freshly baked cookies with a glass of milk, Julie Anne? Oh, no, it was the Cookie Monster who LOVED cookies - not sure he had them with milk though.
This was such a pleasant memory from pre-kindergarten that I looked Snuffy up online to find out more about his character.
Snuffy attended "Snufflegarten" - another cute name. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Snuffleupagus
Julie Anne, I think I can post this small excerpt under the Fair Use provisions without violating copyright law since I included the link to the source, but don't want to get your blog in any legal problem, so you can edit this out or not post it at all if you feel uncomfortable about anything, and I would understand.
I never knew why Snuffy's character was finally made visible to the adults:
"In an interview on a Canadian telethon that was hosted by Bob McGrath, Snuffy's performer, Martin P. Robinson, revealed that Snuffy was finally introduced to the main human cast mainly due to a string of high profile and sometimes graphic stories of pedophilia and sexual abuse of children that had been aired on shows such as 60 Minutes and 20/20. The writers felt that by having the adults refuse to believe Big Bird despite the fact that he was telling the truth, they were scaring children into thinking that their parents would not believe them if they had been sexually abused and that they would just be better off remaining silent."
There was other interesting information on how Snuffy's color changed to make him look less scary..
Thanks, Mr. Snuffleupagus for the happy memories! And for how that led me to the information on Sesame Street.
I wonder if Snuffy ever had the snuffles or cried. Maybe there is more information on that on-line. I wonder what tissues a snuffleupagus would use? Oh, that's right, I remember having to teach children how to blow their nose corrrectly into a tissue instead of "snuffling up". Maybe that's why children found "Snuffy" amusing. Mom couldn't make Snuffy use tissues, his nose was way too big!
@mister snuffleupagus
ReplyDeleteAre you also thinking that the other 30 to 40 of is who previously attended bgbc and are being shunned who also were never under church discipline should likewise take a lie detector test? Too bad you couldn't have been in court yesterday so you could have heard chuck's statements..... Maybe then you would offer him the same opportunity..... I support julie anne and all the other previous members completely.
Could you give a brief recap of his statements? I thought just the attorneys spoke, so if you feel comfortable sharing, I'd be interested in the types of things he said.
DeleteBy the way, Justice, I'm sure it took great courage to be in court yesterday, but I am also sure that Julie Anne was buoyed by your presence.
Yes, Justice, could you give us your inside perspective on the proceedings? If I weren't all the way across the continent in Pittsburgh I would have considered attending.
DeleteDavid
I saw the news last night about the lawsuit. It reminded me of why I left the "church". I have renounced everything I believed after being abused by such a system. I saw so much hypocrisy and lies. It's about time someone stand up and reveal these lions in sheep's clothing. I went through years of self loathing, believing all what was preached from the pulpit. I am now free from all of that as I have come to see how "religion" and ones faith can be used to control and manipulate.
ReplyDeleteI will be thinking of you all as this plays out.
It never ceases to amaze me how many go through what you have gone through. It makes me very sad and angry that is the reason I have this blog. I'm sorry to hear that someone used and abused you for their own personal gain. That is spiritual abuse plain and simple.
DeleteIt's taken me a while to trust and to see God in a more accurate light, but there are true godly shepherds out there. When you experience that kind of love and guidance, it is amazing and you can see how important and beneficial they can be. I'm not sure where you are in your spiritual walk, but I do hope and pray that you would be able to be in a healthy place where pastors really love and pray for your soul as God intended and that the memories of your bad experiences will fade. Thanks for stopping by.
Julie Anne and others- I want to encourage you all- this business of fighting evil and standing up for what is right is wrenching. Its completely devastating, and I say that with the full knowledge that my experience doesn't even come CLOSE to JA's or many others of you- and yet it STILL IS HORRIBLE! All i've lost is my friends and social life, but that is enough. I'm praying for you all, that God will help you find a way back, if you are lost and that God will strengthen and encourage you- Physical abuse hurts the body, spiritual abuse hurts the soul. I wanted to direct you all to the blog by Wenatchee the Hatchet, who i've been reading a lot and has particular interest to me because he left the same place i did. one of his recent posts is amazing to me. http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/07/slate-investigation-of-sandunskys-child.html He draws parallels to the atrocities committed at the hands of a rock star who was untouchable- and the onhly reason he was untouchable and the only reason that all but the first victim even had the CHANCE to be assaulted was because regular people stood by and let it happened. Their institution was far more important to them than innocent lives. This is why Julie Anne is so amazing. At great cost to herself, family, etc. she is standing up and saying NO. I encourage you ALL to stand up and say NO! Yes, you have a lot to lose, but how can you not. Its our responsibility as HUMANS let alone Christians to do the right thing! God Bless you all!
ReplyDeleteThe only thing worse than vicious women are men AND women who know abuse has happened and are silent! Woe to you scribes and pharisees~God sees what goes on in our hearts and actions.
ReplyDeleteChoose this day whom you will serve
anonymously posting is a must at this point because the vindictive one will add you to the lawsuit, or start a new lawsuit on you if you leave your name here...WARNING
ReplyDeletePastors in 3 states offered to sit with said plaintiff and settle this amongst church members, plaintiff REFUSES....lets see, who needs to take a lie detector Mr Snuf?
and may God richly bless the Kvenvolden family!
ReplyDeleteI've been catching up on the hearing that was held Friday, July 13.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting report is the KATU 12 Friday evening EXCLUSIVE interview with Pastor Chuck O'Neal & family by reporter Kate Cagle Fox 12 Oregon video 7/13/2012
A picture is worth a thousand words, and at last we see all parties.
Interesting to note the judge is Judge Jim L. Fun - perhaps Asian pronunciation is more like "Phoon", but he has a lot of things to consider in making his opinion;to pray for him would be appropriate.
Romans 13:1-4
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Be Subject to Government
Romans 13:1-4 "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."
It was interesting to finally see an interview with Pastor O'Neal and his whole family is pictured in the video at the :53 time mark. A nice family with one boy and one girl and I'm sure this has not been easy for any of them. The son looked rather somber as he stood with his father during the comments about "mud sticking/stinking".
The reporter talks about the "jaw-dropping accusations" and then Mrs. O'Neal gives her testimony at the 1:07 time mark. "These women know that the accusations they are making are untrue. And that the only thing worse than a vicious woman is a group of vicious women."
Pastor O'Neal turns to show his wife affirmation with a huge smile. It's nice to see his troubled look erased and replaced by a smile.
Later in the video Julie Anne Smith smiles twice - both times as she talks about free speech and freedom.
I'm not sure if the court decision involves attitudes or motives - I think it probably is restricted to legal definitions, precedents.
The Calvary Chapel abuse case being dismissed concerned me for awhile, because the court dismissed it saying they had no jurisdiction over a doctrinal issue in a church. But then I realized that lawsuit had been brought AGAINST A CHURCH. Since this case involves a church and a pastor AGAINST women and involves free speech, there will likely be a very different judicial review.
It was a relief to know that this case would not go to trial. I've served as a juror and know that can take days. Jury deliberation takes time and follows strict rules. There is a huge burden of proof on the plaintiff, whether it is the State or a private party.
I appreciated that fact, because if I were the accused, I would want the case against me "proved beyond a reasonable doubt."
1 Peter 2:19-21 "For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God."
I'm praying for Judge Fun, and for all involved to be able to experience peace and patience while waiting for his decision.